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> Please Critique My Character
Shanshu Freeman
post Mar 7 2004, 02:50 AM
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Edited for clarification:

By This: [For now I'd just like your thoughts on the raw character]
I meant This: [Just critique the raw data/numbers in terms of in game effectiveness]


Alexander Doyle

B 5
Q 6
S 5
C 2
I 6
W 3

Active:

Pistols/AP3 5/7
Edged/Katana 4/6
Clubs/Stun Baton 3/5
Martial Arts/Jeet Kune Do (sp?) 4/6
Stealth/Sneaking 5/7
Athletics/Gymnastics 4/6
Performance/Acting 3/5
Electronics 5
Demo 3
Bike 2
Bike B/R 2

Knowledge:

SW: Magic 5
AC: Forensic Medicine
AC: Security Devices 4
AC: Engineering 3
AK: Downtown Seattle 4
Military Doctrine/Tactical Analysis: 4/6
History of Espionage/Assassination Methods 2/4
Psychology/Extra(non)-Metahuman 2/4
English 4
Sperethial 3
Latin 2

Common Sense
Perceptive
Compulsive
Impulsive

Also thinking of taking Surge: Astral Sight and Improved Smell, because my character is sort of a man-hunter type. But I'm not sure what I'd offset them with.

This post has been edited by Shanshu Freeman: Mar 8 2004, 12:40 AM
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Kagetenshi
post Mar 7 2004, 02:56 AM
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It sucks. ;)

No obvious flaws, aside from the fact that the martial arts specialization you use runs counter to the MA rules in CC; a lot of people don't use those rules, but I'll mention them just in case. Otherwise, if you'd like to let us know what you want to do with the character we can better critique it.

Also, you specialize more than I generally like, but that's a matter of individual taste and my obsessive-compulsiveness.

~J
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Shanshu Freeman
post Mar 7 2004, 03:11 AM
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QUOTE (Kagetenshi @ Mar 7 2004, 02:56 AM)
It sucks. ;)

No obvious flaws, aside from the fact that the martial arts specialization you use runs counter to the MA rules in CC; a lot of people don't use those rules, but I'll mention them just in case. Otherwise, if you'd like to let us know what you want to do with the character we can better critique it.

Also, you specialize more than I generally like, but that's a matter of individual taste and my obsessive-compulsiveness.

~J

Thanks :D

I'll reread the CC regarding MA.

The plan is that my character is the child of two British(or what passes for GB in the Sixth World) citizens, born in Seattle at the British Consulate. (sp?) ( IIRC, the Metroplex can now send and recieve VIPs) He tested high for things the British Secret Service looks for in their people, and began to recieve training. Eventually he disobeyed a direct order (one he thought was immoral or something) and before you know it, he found himself in the Shadows. He has a curiosity that serves him ill on occasion, as reflected by his compulsion to "Find out what's behind that door." (being highly motivated to look behind doors has been a running gag in our campaigns, ask me later) But this is really more of an outlook than limited solely to doors. ie: compelled to ask a Johnson too many questions, etc.
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Kagetenshi
post Mar 7 2004, 03:19 AM
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Also, it seems kinda wrong to have Common Sense and Impulsive in the same character...

~J
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Lindt
post Mar 7 2004, 03:48 AM
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well he gets 2 out of 10, and 1 is only cause he as the common sense edge(aka the boneheaded player edge). No history, no anything. No cyber or bio, but no magic. As for the 'behind doors, hes got no cha. based skills, and no lockpicking skills, or electronics B/R skill. Point and shoot there Alex... Makes me confused as to what his real goal is.
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Kagetenshi
post Mar 7 2004, 03:54 AM
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Point and shoot. Teams need streetsams too, y'know. I'm guessing that when he's finished he'll have quite a bit of cyber.

~J
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Siege
post Mar 7 2004, 04:06 AM
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A couple of things:

1. What is he planning on doing with Electronics?
2. Demolitions 3 is like...um...bad. That's one skill you want to throw as many dice as possible to avoid an oops. Demo 2/4 (something), maybe a point or two higher.
3. Bike 2 is a little low if you plan on riding under combat conditions.
4. Performance/acting? What's your objective? You might think about Negotiations and/or Disguise.

-Siege





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Sphynx
post Mar 7 2004, 09:41 AM
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I'm with Lindt on this one. No Magic, Cyber or Bio. What edge does he have to be a runner? Every runner needs an edge. And although perhaps "Realistic", it's anti-cyber genre to make a character like this. :P

Sphynx
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Shanshu Freeman
post Mar 7 2004, 10:26 AM
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QUOTE (Lindt @ Mar 7 2004, 03:48 AM)
well he gets 2 out of 10, and 1 is only cause he as the common sense edge(aka the boneheaded player edge).  No history, no anything.  No cyber or bio, but no magic.  As for the 'behind doors, hes got no cha. based skills, and no lockpicking skills, or electronics B/R skill.  Point and shoot there Alex...  Makes me confused as to what his real goal is.

He does have a history, I just haven't typed it all out yet, because I was confirming it with my GM.
The starting post is just asking for a critique of the raw character, not about history anyway. (Which is important to roleplay a character, I agree)

Opening a maglock is the Electronics skill, not Electronics Build/Repair, IIRC
Besides, the wondering about what's behind doors is more of an outlook, figurative more than a literal sense, (although he is compelled by curiosity to explore behind doors.)

Performance/Acting *is* a charisma based skill, so I don't know what you're talking about there.


Real goal is to Role Play, rather than number crunch.

Siege
QUOTE
A couple of things:

1. What is he planning on doing with Electronics?
2. Demolitions 3 is like...um...bad. That's one skill you want to throw as many dice as possible to avoid an oops. Demo 2/4 (something), maybe a point or two higher.
3. Bike 2 is a little low if you plan on riding under combat conditions.
4. Performance/acting? What's your objective? You might think about Negotiations and/or Disguise.

-Siege


1. Maglocks + Operate electronic devices
2. I went with demo 3 on advice from the GM. It was less a safety thing than a "Well, anything your team blows up, they'll not be too precise about. Probably overkill, which, if expecting it isn't that big a deal."
3. I don't plan to bike under combat conditions. I only want a vehicle skill without assuming a character has basic driving as a freebie.
4. I'm not a face so I don't want to take negotiations, and acting fits the character back ground. (which you had no way of knowing because I haven't posted the character history and intro and stuff yet)


Sphynx
QUOTE
I'm with Lindt on this one. No Magic, Cyber or Bio. What edge does he have to be a runner? Every runner needs an edge. And although perhaps "Realistic", it's anti-cyber genre to make a character like this. 

Sphynx
Does every character have to be a leet magickal user or pimped out cyber/bio whore to be usefull? Whenever people start talking about keeping a character with low body alive longer through a campaign, or using a low level character, everybody trots out the business about "Use target modifiers to your advantage" "Smart gaming can surprise you with what kind of use you can get out of characters." Well, I'm trying to put that to the test.
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Sphynx
post Mar 7 2004, 12:22 PM
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Don't mistake "an edge" for "elite".

If the whole group is at the power level, I'm sure he'll be great, but he's going to pale in comparrison to others if they specialize even remotely.

In combat he doesn't have a chance. Even thugs and streetcops have Smartlinks in most games I've seen, he'll always be outdone in a firefight. He could probably handle himself against basic thugs in melee, but that's about it. No useful skills other than combat (which isn't so useful on this character) and Electronics (which nearly every character has anyhows).

Unless you're in a group or similars, you'll be outshined in every aspect, and don't even have some interesting spells to make up for it. Even if a Mage type doesn't have any combat edge or other mundane edges, even if he doesn't have offensive/defensive spells, he'll have stuff that gives him an Edge, even if it's as simple as Fashion or Nutrition.

Anyhows, you wanted our eval, that's mine. He'll never "shine" and for most players, that equals boredom as everyone else gets the spotlight at some point. As a GM (I'm actually looking at it as a GM, not as a power-gamer/player), I'd immediately recommend any player sheet I saw with no "Edge" to make a new character. I've played far too much to believe someone would enjoy this guy.

Sphynx
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Siege
post Mar 7 2004, 02:25 PM
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Electronics governs the operation and use of electronic devices.

Electronics b/r enables the character to crack maglocks, kinda like a high-tech lock-pick.

Buying Electronics to work a maglock is like buying Electronics to work a microwave. :grinbig:

-Siege
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Kagetenshi
post Mar 7 2004, 02:27 PM
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Did ye' mean B/R for the second one there, Siege?

~J
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Siege
post Mar 7 2004, 02:31 PM
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QUOTE (Kagetenshi)
Did ye' mean B/R for the second one there, Siege?

~J

I did say electronics b/r for the second one?

-Siege
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Kagetenshi
post Mar 7 2004, 02:33 PM
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QUOTE (Siege @ Mar 7 2004, 09:25 AM)
Buying Electronics to work a maglock is like buying Electronics to work a microwave. :grinbig:

Requiring a roll to work a microwave would be silly, but it at least is something that makes sense as an application of Electronics, even if it shouldn't require a roll even for a skillless character. Electronics B/R, though, would be completely useless and thus a better comparison, I think.

Edit: I'm an idiot, you meant to operate it normally rather than to crack it. Carry on with your usual thread. :oops: :dead:

~J
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broho_pcp
post Mar 7 2004, 02:39 PM
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Just one question: How long have you played SR? (I am not being condescending, just wondering)

As for your character: Two comments
1. I agree that your character has to many specializations, it may be personal preference but my characters always seem limited by specializations as opposed to helped. Plus, one extra die rarely makes the difference between life and death.

2. Why is your charisma score so low, is the character actually ugly? A three rating is normal. This score will possibly be a negative when dealing with anybody. However, if the character is supposed to be like that, then maybe you could take the "ugly and doesn't care" or "uncouth" flaws.

Final Comment: I like players who just have fun playing and don't worry to much about "perfect" characters.
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Siege
post Mar 7 2004, 02:48 PM
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That's the other thing that was bugging me -- is your GM enforcing the attribute-skill link?

If so, when you buy a skill that exceeds your attribute rating, you have to pay 2 skill points per 1 real skill level that exceeds the attribute rating.

Acting 3 costs 4 points
Acting 4 costs 6 points

-Siege
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ShadowPhoenix
post Mar 7 2004, 05:39 PM
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being the :vegm: that I am, I tend to bust people for not having the skill to work something basically. No Electronics skill? roll intelligence to dial the cell phone.... etc. Is this character in a low level campaign? do we have maybe a small example of one of the other runners to compare this one's power level to? With the knowledges I'm pretty sure this character will have a lot of good RP value, but is he comparible in active skills to his runner comrades? that's the real question.
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BitBasher
post Mar 7 2004, 05:46 PM
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Also by the book cracking a maglock is NOT just electronics. To crack a maglock there are two rols involved, the first is to crack the casing oof the lock off, base time 60 seconds, uses Electronics B/R. The second roll is Electronics to open the lock. The TN is usually the rating of the maglock, with penalties for things like tamperproof +2tn, so forth and so on.

Just electronics won't help you.
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Siege
post Mar 7 2004, 07:06 PM
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QUOTE (BitBasher)
Also by the book cracking a maglock is NOT just electronics. To crack a maglock there are two rols involved, the first is to crack the casing oof the lock off, base time 60 seconds, uses Electronics B/R. The second roll is Electronics to open the lock. The TN is usually the rating of the maglock, with penalties for things like tamperproof +2tn, so forth and so on.

Just electronics won't help you.

I thought it was Electronics B/R both times for a maglock?

I may have to re-read SotA again.

-Siege
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BitBasher
post Mar 7 2004, 08:29 PM
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Not unless they changed it in the SOTA book, which I suppose they may have :(
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ShadowPhoenix
post Mar 7 2004, 08:50 PM
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Just more reasons for me to get SotA:2063 :( I really need more money :P
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Siege
post Mar 7 2004, 09:26 PM
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QUOTE (BitBasher @ Mar 7 2004, 08:29 PM)
Not unless they changed it in the SOTA book, which I suppose they may have :(

Well, I guess the question becomes --> where did you get your information from?

I thought the first canon reference to explain cracking maglocks in any particular detail was SotA?

-Siege

Edit: Corrected for chilled fingers
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Nikoli
post Mar 7 2004, 09:30 PM
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The mechanics in SoTA are a little wacky. You make an Electronics B/R to remove the case , disable the anti-temper stuff and replace the case. You make an Electronics test to 'hotwire' any maglock once the case is off.
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Shanshu Freeman
post Mar 7 2004, 11:21 PM
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QUOTE (Sphynx)
Don't mistake "an edge" for "elite".

If the whole group is at the power level, I'm sure he'll be great, but he's going to pale in comparrison to others if they specialize even remotely.

In combat he doesn't have a chance. Even thugs and streetcops have Smartlinks in most games I've seen, he'll always be outdone in a firefight. He could probably handle himself against basic thugs in melee, but that's about it. No useful skills other than combat (which isn't so useful on this character) and Electronics (which nearly every character has anyhows).

Unless you're in a group or similars, you'll be outshined in every aspect, and don't even have some interesting spells to make up for it. Even if a Mage type doesn't have any combat edge or other mundane edges, even if he doesn't have offensive/defensive spells, he'll have stuff that gives him an Edge, even if it's as simple as Fashion or Nutrition.

Anyhows, you wanted our eval, that's mine. He'll never "shine" and for most players, that equals boredom as everyone else gets the spotlight at some point. As a GM (I'm actually looking at it as a GM, not as a power-gamer/player), I'd immediately recommend any player sheet I saw with no "Edge" to make a new character. I've played far too much to believe someone would enjoy this guy.

Sphynx

I *do* appreciate the input, no worries there.

It sounds like my GM runs a **very** low powered game compared to what the rest of you all run. Pistols 7 with a smartlink 2 has been incredibly effective in our group.

As far as edges go, my character has several edges and flaws. I would also never think of playing a character who didn't have any. That seems kind of bland, personally.


broho_pcp
QUOTE
Just one question: How long have you played SR? (I am not being condescending, just wondering)

As for your character: Two comments
1. I agree that your character has to many specializations, it may be personal preference but my characters always seem limited by specializations as opposed to helped. Plus, one extra die rarely makes the difference between life and death.

2. Why is your charisma score so low, is the character actually ugly? A three rating is normal. This score will possibly be a negative when dealing with anybody. However, if the character is supposed to be like that, then maybe you could take the "ugly and doesn't care" or "uncouth" flaws.

Final Comment: I like players who just have fun playing and don't worry to much about "perfect" characters.
No offense taken. I'm definetly not a veteran player, I've only got nominal experience.

1. You're right, overspecialisation breeds weakness. Is this character overspecialised? I'm hearing people say it's on both ends of the spectrum.

2. The character is not a very social person. Not *ugly* but very plain looking. With bad teeth. Not overly so but noticable. I want him to reflect this, and yet I don't want to be completely useless socially.

Thanks, I wanna have fun with the character, too. :D

Siege
QUOTE
That's the other thing that was bugging me -- is your GM enforcing the attribute-skill link?

If so, when you buy a skill that exceeds your attribute rating, you have to pay 2 skill points per 1 real skill level that exceeds the attribute rating.

Acting 3 costs 4 points
Acting 4 costs 6 points

-Siege
Yup. Pretty strict. (mostly)

ShadowPhoenix
QUOTE
being the  that I am, I tend to bust people for not having the skill to work something basically. No Electronics skill? roll intelligence to dial the cell phone.... etc. Is this character in a low level campaign? do we have maybe a small example of one of the other runners to compare this one's power level to? With the knowledges I'm pretty sure this character will have a lot of good RP value, but is he comparible in active skills to his runner comrades? that's the real question.
*very* low level, judging by the reactions of you dumpshockers :D My character seems like an adaquate counterpart to his comrades...

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Glyph
post Mar 7 2004, 11:30 PM
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You don't need SoTA. The rules for cracking MagLocks are in the basic book, pg. 235. Everyone is correct that you need both the Electronics and Electronics B/R skill. Or, you could save some skill points and get a sequencer and a MagLock passkey, instead.

This character really needs an Etiquette skill. Negotiation is useful, but not essential for every single character to have. Etiquette, however, is absolutely necessary for any character.

I agree with the others that this character is spread too thin. You lack the full range of skills needed to be a covert ops specialist, but with no cyberware you will not be able to stand up to cybered characters or adepts. Roleplaying and tactics are fine and all, but they can't completely compensate for low or missing skills, or for lacking advantages that many of your opponents will possess.

My advice? Given the general concept you have in mind, you have too many combat skills. I would lower Strength, raise Charisma, drop the Edged Weapons and Clubs skills and lower the Unarmed Combat (keep that high Quickness and that high Pistols skill, though), and take both Electronics B/R and some social skills - namely, Etiquette and Negotiation. With the pistols skill, you can still be effective in combat, but with those other skills, you will much better fit the role of snoop/spy/fast-talker. By the way, you might be able to take performance/acting as a knowledge skill to supplement your Etiquette or Negotiation tests.
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