Money for Magicians and Adepts? Options

[Karoline]

All at force 6 (or higher, on foci)
Combat sense spell
Increased Reaction
Detect Enemies (extended)
Increase Body
Armor

as a for example (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

And the mage still... well, doesn't die, but is in serious trouble. Detect enemies doesn't go out that far that it will prevent you getting surprised by a sniper, but assuming that the mage isn't surprised:
6 from combat sense
9 from reaction
So 15 dice on defense, which means you still get hit, but only 1-3 net hits, which means 10-12 damage. For soak you're looking at:
6 armor spell
9 body (could be higher, but not super likely)
8 armor (fairly common)
-4 AP
-4 APDS ammo
So 15 dice to soak with, which is a good 5 hits, which means anywhere from 5-7 damage. Not enough for a kill (assuming we aren't talking about a called shot for increased damage), but it is serious damage. And you're comparing something that a sammy can easily easily easily do from chargen with something that would require 60+ karma and a few hundred thousand nuyen after chargen on the part of the mage.

[Karoline]

You still get body/armor soak.
And getting surrprise on an established mage.. is trickier than you might expect.

True, which on its own is 15ish dice, which means the mage is still dead (9P + 8 net hits - 5 soak = dead mage).

And sneaking up on a mage is easy, established or not. I'm fairly sure I can get within a mile of a mage.

[sabs]

True
Though we were talking about A Well Developed Mage, vs 10 5.2M nuyen cyberpunks, originally.

And this assumes that the Mage goes out in public in his own form, and doesn't use Illusion spells to make himself look like some random guy, or..

I forgot about Improved Invisibility, with a Thermal Dampening suit.

[Karoline]

True
Though we were talking about A Well Developed Mage, vs 10 5.2M nuyen cyberpunks, originally.

And this assumes that the Mage goes out in public in his own form, and doesn't use Illusion spells to make himself look like some random guy, or..

I forgot about Improved Invisibility, with a Thermal Dampening suit.

And ultrasound passes right through that. And you're getting kinda silly if you're talking about the mage living all the time under illusions. It's like saying the sammy never goes outside without a nanopaste disguise on (different person every day) and chameleon suit.

[sabs]

And ultrasound passes right through that. And you're getting kinda silly if you're talking about the mage living all the time under illusions. It's like saying the sammy never goes outside without a nanopaste disguise on (different person every day) and chameleon suit.

Hey, if I'm worried about a sniper rifle to the head (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) maybe I do.

Ultra sound does not have a range of 1mile though (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
If he's close enough for ultrasound, I'm close enough to be going full defense.

[Machiavelli]

I play a very powerful established mage and i get hit all the time.^^

[vladthebad]

Do they have expendable foci in 4th Ed? I don't know about the rest of you awakened folk, but I dump my paycheck into those things every chance I get. That and ritual materials. And high lifestyles, since being awesome demands kobe beef and plates that don't say "papermade".

[Myrgan]

I play a very powerful established mage and i get hit all the time.^^

well now you know to walk invisible 10 meters behind your illusion double (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Shinobi Killfist]

I play a very powerful established mage and i get hit all the time.^^

Well most people don't build their characters with the thought to break the game with an invulnerable character. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Machiavelli]

I do.^^

[Shinobi Killfist]

I do.^^

Well now thanks to this thread you have some pointers to help.

[TommyTwoToes]

Well that's exactly *my* point! It's a *good* thing the mage will take forever to get that kind of karma together. If you have a mage with 2 mill and you let him trade 1 mill for enough karma to bond 1 mill's worth of foci, you will have one overpowered mage.

I beleive foci addiction comes into play whenever the total force of you bonded foci is higher than 2 * Magic. Addiction is the Path to burnout.

[CanRay]

Addiction leads to Burnout. Burnout leads to Cybernetics. Cybernetics leads to SUFFERING...

From, the surgery, you know?

[Shinobi Killfist]

I beleive foci addiction comes into play whenever the total force of you bonded foci is higher than 2 * Magic. Addiction is the Path to burnout.

Not just bonded but active foci have to exceed twice your magic, if you even follow this fairly obscure guideline.

[Myrgan]

I beleive foci addiction comes into play whenever the total force of you bonded foci is higher than 2 * Magic. Addiction is the Path to burnout.

Sounds feasible, but I don't remember reading that anywhere. Can you quote the reference?

[Karoline]

Addiction leads to Burnout. Burnout leads to Cybernetics. Cybernetics leads to SUFFERING...

From, the surgery, you know?

"More Morphine please!"

[Angelone]

Addiction is the path to burnout, burnout is the path to cyberzombie, cyberzombie is the path to being possessed by a dragon. I chalk that up as a win.

[TommyTwoToes]

Sounds feasible, but I don't remember reading that anywhere. Can you quote the reference?

At work now so AFB, if one of theEuro posters can look it up....

[Yerameyahu]

I dunno if that's quite how it works. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[sabs]

I dunno if that's quite how it works. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

There is no mention of Foci addiction in the main book. It's a Street magic thing, Page 26-27.

Sadly I don't have my copy of street magic at work.

[Yerameyahu]

No, no, sabs. I meant this: "burnout is the path to cyberzombie, cyberzombie is the path to being possessed by a dragon." (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Anyway, SM p26-7 only describes what Focus Addiction is like, not how to acquire it.

[sabs]

No, no, sabs. I meant this: "burnout is the path to cyberzombie, cyberzombie is the path to being possessed by a dragon." (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

I'm positive that's how it works.
Although really.. given how much cyber/bio you can squeeze into a pc without going negative. Do you really need Cyberzombies anymore?

[Yerameyahu]

You don't want to be a dual-natured walking domain? That's the 'point', if not the intention. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) They're just supposed to be magic-immune NPC monsters, which is why I said that's not how it works. Burnout mages don't become cyberzombies, because they're not NPCs; and why would a dragon (who, of course, isn't a possession spirit) possess a cyberzombie (which sounds all kinds of difficult to possess)? Messy.

[sabs]

Unless it's all part of some convoluted ritual for stopping the Horrors from coming across early.

Or something (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Jaid]

You don't want to be a dual-natured walking domain? That's the 'point', if not the intention. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) They're just supposed to be magic-immune NPC monsters, which is why I said that's not how it works. Burnout mages don't become cyberzombies, because they're not NPCs; and why would a dragon (who, of course, isn't a possession spirit) possess a cyberzombie (which sounds all kinds of difficult to possess)? Messy.

i'm beginning to suspect that someone may not know about the dragon heart =P