Cybertooth Tiger Claws/Bite DV, When rolling Body + Armour is just living in denial Options

[Aerospider]

This biodrone has a Strength of 10 (I think) and a damage value of 13, which is more than a long narrow burst from an HMG.
Does anyone else think this isn't quite right? Isn't the DV for dragon claws less than this?

Given that all man(tiger)-powered melee attacks are based on half strength, that's a modifier of +8 where most technological marvels struggle to beat +3.

[Summerstorm]

Hm... have to look it up, where is it exactly? Running Wild?

But yeah, normaly it is str/2+(1-3)+adept/magic/martial powers. Dragons have lower damage, too (like you said), they should start 50% higher or something.... Weird... but maybe it is just that the system for damage breaks down at high/low values (It does).

It should have Str/2+2 or something.

[sabs]

Hm... have to look it up, where is it exactly? Running Wild?

But yeah, normaly it is str/2+(1-3)+adept/magic/martial powers. Dragons have lower damage, too (like you said), they should start 50% higher or something.... Weird... but maybe it is just that the system for damage breaks down at high/low values (It does).

It should have Str/2+2 or something.

Well I would expect a Dragon to have a 20+ str (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
so your average dragons is doing dv 10+X+magic bonus of some kind. Maybe 19dv.. with claws, or bite.

[Summerstorm]

Well, a normal Dragon is statted with 30-40 (per type) strength and a great one has about 10 more. So yeah, it makes at LEAST 25DV + mods. But all those "beast" which have such a high strength seems capped at 10DV base damage. But for example the ROC (Another insane strenght beast /Str: 45) has its 24DV. There seems some problems with the consistence.

[Reg06]

This biodrone has a Strength of 10 (I think) and a damage value of 13, which is more than a long narrow burst from an HMG.
Does anyone else think this isn't quite right? Isn't the DV for dragon claws less than this?

Given that all man(tiger)-powered melee attacks are based on half strength, that's a modifier of +8 where most technological marvels struggle to beat +3.

Clearly the robo-tiger has a rating 3 martial arts skillsoft, and since it is a biodrone is probably awakened (1 point of adept powers can add the necessary +2 DV to the unarmed attacks, which are probably naturally at +3).

[Neurosis]

Well, a normal Dragon is statted with 30-40 (per type) strength and a great one has about 10 more. So yeah, it makes at LEAST 25DV + mods. But all those "beast" which have such a high strength seems capped at 10DV base damage. But for example the ROC (Another insane strenght beast /Str: 45) has its 24DV. There seems some problems with the consistence.

I have noticed this.

[Yerameyahu]

Why would a biodrone probably be awakened?

[Neraph]

Here's what I've noticed about such things:

1) Dragons. Dragons are supposed to be massively awsome spellcasters with access to most spells. This means that every one you ever face will have access to the Elemental Aura spell, using tail slaps/wing buffets/headbutts in lieu of claws/bite, as this method of attacking grands a considerable increase in lethality - from 10P with no AP to 25P + Successes, -1/2 AP, plus elemental effects (or all damage being Sonic. That much Stun is negligable that it is in fact Stun. It will overflow).

Natural Weapon damages should be balanced though. I mean, a rhinocerous' horn is more dangerous than a dragon's bite? Really?

2) The Cybertooth Biodrone. This is a horribly written attempt at a cyberdrone. Apparently the Bone Lacing damage value is added to the existing Natural Weapon, breaking many of the Rules (or lacking, the Common Sense) presented elsewhere. In addition, some of the modifications have increased the DV of the subject with no reasoning presented.

[Reg06]

Why would a biodrone probably be awakened?

First place I could pull up the additional +2 DV, from within the rules.

[Yerameyahu]

Oh, I thought you meant there was some significant connection between being a biodrone and being Awakened. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Neraph]

Right, but the biodrone in question does not have any Magic rating.

Plus, the fact that losing Essence through 'ware means losing Magic means this is a very, very poor option. It's better to work with pre-templated warforms or chimeras.

[Yerameyahu]

That was my thinking: what Awakened critter *can* survive any 'ware installation with a Magic rating intact? Not many. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Neurosis]

Here's what I've noticed about such things:

1) Dragons. Dragons are supposed to be massively awsome spellcasters with access to most spells. This means that every one you ever face will have access to the Elemental Aura spell, using tail slaps/wing buffets/headbutts in lieu of claws/bite, as this method of attacking grands a considerable increase in lethality - from 10P with no AP to 25P + Successes, -1/2 AP, plus elemental effects (or all damage being Sonic. That much Stun is negligable that it is in fact Stun. It will overflow).

Is it really a safe assumption that EVERY Dragon knows EVERY spell? Or even that EVERY dragon knows (and feels like Sustaining/Quickening) Elemental Aura? I agree with you that every GREAT Dragon knows every spell but if we give every (non-Great) dragon access to most spells and assume they're ALL using any spells, it makes it harder to differentiate them and make them feel unique by giving them discrete, diverse skillsets.

In short, I do not think that all dragons should be using elemental aura. And I would like it if dragons were a bit more dangerous in ordinary non-magically-augmented combat (dragons qua monsters as opposed to dragons qua mages).

It is especially odd that their DV is in no way a function of their Strength (as far as I can tell).

[Neraph]

Some Shifters, but that's about it.

Possibly dragons, but I definately don't want to fight a biodrone dragon. Eep.

[Neurosis]

I pity the fool that turns a dragon into a biodrone. If you can pull it off, the repercussion from Dragonkind as a whole should probably be pretty extreme for an offense like that. (Dragons don't exactly present a unified front, but still...turning one into a cyborged slave...)

[Neraph]

Is it really a safe assumption that EVERY Dragon knows EVERY spell? Or even that EVERY dragon knows (and feels like Sustaining/Quickening) Elemental Aura? I agree with you that every GREAT Dragon knows every spell but if we give every (non-Great) dragon access to most spells and assume they're ALL using any spells, it makes it harder to differentiate them and make them feel unique by giving them discrete, diverse skillsets.

In short, I do not think that all dragons should be using elemental aura. And I would like it if dragons were a bit more dangerous in ordinary non-magically-augmented combat (dragons qua monsters as opposed to dragons qua mages).

It is especially odd that their DV is in no way a function of their Strength (as far as I can tell).

Note: All dragons are have the Magician quality and know most spells.

Emphasis mine. It is not a safe assumption - it is RAW. Also, I said "most" spells, not "all" spells. The sheer odds of a dragon being encountered without some variant of Elemental Aura should be considered a statistical impossibility.

They were not meant to be used without some form(s, and usually many) of magic.

It is odd. However, the Natural Weapon power does state that it is in no way linked to the Strength of a critter at all:

The nature of this power describes the nature of the attack, as well as its Damage Value and Armor Penetration modifiers where applicable.

[Neraph]

I pity the fool that turns a dragon into a biodrone. If you can pull it off, the repercussion from Dragonkind as a whole should probably be pretty extreme for an offense like that. (Dragons don't exactly present a unified front, but still...turning one into a cyborged slave...)

Not all biodrones are "cyborged slaves" - many are just supremely enhanced with cybernetic and biological combat bonuses. I imaging that there would be at least one lesser dragon or dragonkin out there that would agree to experiment with this option. SEIES and TRACES would greatly increase the combat benefits of dragonkind, as would many forms of bioware and cyberware.

All that makes a Biodrone a Biodrone is a Stirrup Interface OR a CAST system OR an Orientation Goad. An Orientation Goad implanted to a dragon with the wireless removed would classify it as a Biodrone, allowing it to also gain other implants. Again, SEIES and TRACES would be amazing for a dragon to have, as would many pieces of bio/cyber.

[sabs]

Dragon with MBW3 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
Titanium Lacing
And a laser on top of his head.

[Yerameyahu]

Um. The wireless removed? How exactly does it work, then? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I don't think SEIES and TRACES would have any function on a dragon. They're for allowing dumb animals be more humanlike.

[Brazilian_Shinob...]

Dragon with MBW3 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
Titanium Lacing
And a laser on top of his head.

I'm sorry sir, but dragons are an endangered species, which makes them are protected by international laws. We do have some mutated wyverns. They are veeeery angry.

[Aerospider]

I pity the fool that turns a dragon into a biodrone. If you can pull it off, the repercussion from Dragonkind as a whole should probably be pretty extreme for an offense like that. (Dragons don't exactly present a unified front, but still...turning one into a cyborged slave...)

Frigging awesome. Zoink!

[jakephillips]

Sure I am sure that Lyfware doesn't care that his little cousin is turned into a mindless killing machine under the control of some AA corp. I would not want to be the head of R and D there.

[Neurosis]

Emphasis mine. It is not a safe assumption - it is RAW. Also, I said "most" spells, not "all" spells. The sheer odds of a dragon being encountered without some variant of Elemental Aura should be considered a statistical impossibility.

They were not meant to be used without some form(s, and usually many) of magic.

Most spells != always has elemental aura.

[Neurosis]

Not all biodrones are "cyborged slaves" - many are just supremely enhanced with cybernetic and biological combat bonuses. I imaging that there would be at least one lesser dragon or dragonkin out there that would agree to experiment with this option. SEIES and TRACES would greatly increase the combat benefits of dragonkind, as would many forms of bioware and cyberware.

All that makes a Biodrone a Biodrone is a Stirrup Interface OR a CAST system OR an Orientation Goad. An Orientation Goad implanted to a dragon with the wireless removed would classify it as a Biodrone, allowing it to also gain other implants. Again, SEIES and TRACES would be amazing for a dragon to have, as would many pieces of bio/cyber.

All fluff I've read and some rules text (of perhaps questionable canonicity) indicates that Dragons REALLY REALLY REALLY do not respond well to 'ware. (Note the SR character that is my namesake.)

[Neurosis]

Frigging awesome. Zoink!

Enjoy. : )