Complex Form Top 10's, (Or 12's) Options

[SleepIncarnate]

Data sprites can get stealth as an optional CF, so browsing while hacked into a node is easy. And every stream gets data sprites. As for command, can always thread if you don't have it. And why compile a combat sprite when the shit hits the fan when you can prepare one in advance by either compiling and dismissing it, or have one registered. It's a simple action to call one as opposed to the complex action to compile one, and then use your other simple action to command it. And a smart TM will have a high stealth CF and have mute on their exploit CF so they're going to be hard to detect and if they are detected, half the time they'll know in advance that they set off alarms. The fact of the matter is that a TM really wants EVERY CF in the long run, but they can only start with so many unless the GM waives that rule, so they need to prioritize.

Edit: Just checked Unwired, and sleuth sprites start with stealth and browse, and can pick up command as an optional CF, so yeah, can basically rely on sprites for just about everything. Fault sprites have stealth and are the default combat sprites, you don't pull out paladin/tank sprites unless combat is a guaranteed situation.

[Karoline]

The fact of the matter is that a TM really wants EVERY CF in the long run, but they can only start with so many unless the GM waives that rule, so they need to prioritize.

And even if the GM did waive that rule, it would be hard to gather up that many BP without gimping your character in other areas.

[sabs]

Stealth
Exploit
Edit
Browse
Analyze
Decrypt
Disarm
would be my absolutely must haves

[SleepIncarnate]

And even if the GM did waive that rule, it would be hard to gather up that many BP without gimping your character in other areas.

Which raises the question, what advantages does a starting TM have over a starting mundane or adept hacker/rigger? Sprites and threading are the only things that come to mind. The shield CF too, I suppose.

[Jaid]

Which raises the question, what advantages does a starting TM have over a starting mundane or adept hacker/rigger? Sprites and threading are the only things that come to mind. The shield CF too, I suppose.

you need more reason than that?

(there are in fact a few minor ones... you're resistant to hacking, for example, +2 matrix perception for another, unlimited active programs for a third)

but ultimately, sprites and threading are really quite frighteningly powerful, if you use them well. threading program options can be particularly interesting... like on-the-fly psychotropic options for your black programs. you can, essentially on a whim, inflict just about any phobia or mania you wish on the target (or an addiction, or a number of other ridiculously life-altering qualities). with threading, you can nearly duplicate the full possible effects of a PAB machine whenever you feel like it. only instead of taking a long time, it takes less than 3 seconds to use. and instead of a large, bulky machine, you can do it with a spare trode net, commlink, and sim module.

and of course, there's the ever-popular rating 18 command program to control drones, or the rating 18 stealth so that you are nearly undetectable, or the rating 18 attack program (or blackout/black hammer/etc) that can instantly destroy an icon or take even a cold sim user into physical overflow if you use black hammer (note: blackout does not overflow. but black hammer can). alternately, blackout is the only way to 100% reliably fill someone's stun track without touching their physical track...

but yeah, if you think sprites and threading are not a big deal, think again. an out-of-the-box technomancer can be terrifying at what they do. oh, they might suck at combat, but they can do ridiculous things if they set their mind to it.

[SleepIncarnate]

I never said they weren't, but those also come with penalties. They are frightening, but they're the only advantages a TM really has until submersion. The mundane can have 5 IPs, a ton of mooks, every prog at rating 6..... the TM HAS to adapt on the fly with threading or sprites. Their greatest strength is also the only real way to overcome their greatest weakness (lack of CF's).

[Dumori]

you need more reason than that?

(there are in fact a few minor ones... you're resistant to hacking, for example, +2 matrix perception for another, unlimited active programs for a third)

but ultimately, sprites and threading are really quite frighteningly powerful, if you use them well. threading program options can be particularly interesting... like on-the-fly psychotropic options for your black programs. you can, essentially on a whim, inflict just about any phobia or mania you wish on the target (or an addiction, or a number of other ridiculously life-altering qualities). with threading, you can nearly duplicate the full possible effects of a PAB machine whenever you feel like it. only instead of taking a long time, it takes less than 3 seconds to use. and instead of a large, bulky machine, you can do it with a spare trode net, commlink, and sim module.

and of course, there's the ever-popular rating 18 command program to control drones, or the rating 18 stealth so that you are nearly undetectable, or the rating 18 attack program (or blackout/black hammer/etc) that can instantly destroy an icon or take even a cold sim user into physical overflow if you use black hammer (note: blackout does not overflow. but black hammer can). alternately, blackout is the only way to 100% reliably fill someone's stun track without touching their physical track...

but yeah, if you think sprites and threading are not a big deal, think again. an out-of-the-box technomancer can be terrifying at what they do. oh, they might suck at combat, but they can do ridiculous things if they set their mind to it.

psychotropic reprogramming Is awesome when mixed with the stupid I suck your mind in to my bio node power. Mania must obey the TM (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif) dance my puppets DANCE! Area blackout with it lets you do it to as many people as you can touch (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) OP maybe funny as hell to do to those two goons manhandling you in to the van most certainly.

This does depend on wether your orders count as uncomman or not hardly easy to judge that you you can pull a modertate fear of your self even counting as comman they will put them selves at risk to avoid you. You can also make them imcompertent though I don't think you can give mulpitul qualities with it though so you'd have to pick well I guess unarmedcombat would help in the being manhandled case.

If you have set up time CDS and the mania to obey you would give them a -7 to the test to reist your orders.

[Jaid]

I never said they weren't, but those also come with penalties. They are frightening, but they're the only advantages a TM really has until submersion. The mundane can have 5 IPs, a ton of mooks, every prog at rating 6..... the TM HAS to adapt on the fly with threading or sprites. Their greatest strength is also the only real way to overcome their greatest weakness (lack of CF's).

1) 3 IP is generally enough anyways.

2) the TM can also have a ton of mooks. there isn't any magical (or resonant) barrier preventing a technomancer from issuing orders to agents, any more than there is one preventing a technomancer from issuing orders to drones.

4) you likely don't need that many programs at rating 6 all the time. really, look at the list of programs you use on a regular basis. so long as you have the key programs at rating 6, you're doing just fine. a technomancer can pull this off at chargen typically, either by using his/her own CFs or through a sprite or through a combination of threading and assisted operation from a sprite.

4) the 'only' advantage of the technomancer being that they get to smack around anything in the matrix and there isn't a whole awful lot the target can do about it is not particularly a problem for a matrix-focused character.

@ dumori: actually, if you want a cheesy combo, try combining mania: do what i say with phobia: not doing what i say. (you can most certainly inflict multiple qualities... you would just have to thread, hit them once with the first quality, then thread a new option and hit them with the second... any other interpretation means that in exchange for incompetence: pilot exotic vehicle (human-powered orbital skateboards), everyone in the group could be immune to psychotropic effects, and i think we can agree that isn't the intent (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif) )

also, remember that the more uncommon the mania/phobia subject is, the more powerful it can be. now, your GM will probably get an urge to slap you with a trout if you try this, but "mania: obeying shadowrunners who are in the corporate facility you are guarding for the next two hours and are also wearing <describe your character's clothes or someone else in the group> etc etc" is undoubtedly a very uncommon event (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

(note: i don't recommend actually trying to pull that one though. not least of all because of the fact that the tests to resist the action in question are already going to be extremely hard to pull off even without you using this kind of absurd stunt)

[Dumori]

1) 3 IP is generally enough anyways.

2) the TM can also have a ton of mooks. there isn't any magical (or resonant) barrier preventing a technomancer from issuing orders to agents, any more than there is one preventing a technomancer from issuing orders to drones.

4) you likely don't need that many programs at rating 6 all the time. really, look at the list of programs you use on a regular basis. so long as you have the key programs at rating 6, you're doing just fine. a technomancer can pull this off at chargen typically, either by using his/her own CFs or through a sprite or through a combination of threading and assisted operation from a sprite.

4) the 'only' advantage of the technomancer being that they get to smack around anything in the matrix and there isn't a whole awful lot the target can do about it is not particularly a problem for a matrix-focused character.

@ dumori: actually, if you want a cheesy combo, try combining mania: do what i say with phobia: not doing what i say. (you can most certainly inflict multiple qualities... you would just have to thread, hit them once with the first quality, then thread a new option and hit them with the second... any other interpretation means that in exchange for incompetence: pilot exotic vehicle (human-powered orbital skateboards), everyone in the group could be immune to psychotropic effects, and i think we can agree that isn't the intent (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif) )

also, remember that the more uncommon the mania/phobia subject is, the more powerful it can be. now, your GM will probably get an urge to slap you with a trout if you try this, but "mania: obeying shadowrunners who are in the corporate facility you are guarding for the next two hours and are also wearing <describe your character's clothes or someone else in the group> etc etc" is undoubtedly a very uncommon event (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

(note: i don't recommend actually trying to pull that one though. not least of all because of the fact that the tests to resist the action in question are already going to be extremely hard to pull off even without you using this kind of absurd stunt)

If I get resance trodes and am in situation where it's necessary I might have to do this (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) also its the only time I could realy dare and maybe get away with it. Make it look like quick witty thinking not a prolong examination of rules to lead to insanity.

[SleepIncarnate]

TMs are the new DEUS..... ok not really, but still awesome. But related link here:

Echo Thread

[SleepIncarnate]

2) the TM can also have a ton of mooks. there isn't any magical (or resonant) barrier preventing a technomancer from issuing orders to agents, any more than there is one preventing a technomancer from issuing orders to drones.

Every BP spent on nuyen at creation is a BP the TM isn't spending in CFs/Resonance/mental attributes/skills, and while TMs ARE ungodly powerful later down the road, at character creation they tend to be one of the weakest character types. Like free spirits, they're really designed for more long term games.

[Wasabi]

The best CF's to get are the ones missing on your sprites that have Stealth.
So the CF's from a Fault Sprite, for example, are usable in a large # of situations but those from a Paladin Sprite are only useful once an alarm is set off.

And to who said 3 IP's was enough I beg to differ. If you get a fourth pass and are only facing Sprites/Agents/IC then you can full defend all of their passes then AOE them with an Edge on Pass 4.

Since Matrix combat has no "-1 per time you've been attacked since your last pass" modifier this tactic is pretty unique to matrix combat.

[Jaid]

Every BP spent on nuyen at creation is a BP the TM isn't spending in CFs/Resonance/mental attributes/skills, and while TMs ARE ungodly powerful later down the road, at character creation they tend to be one of the weakest character types. Like free spirits, they're really designed for more long term games.

3 BP = rating 6 agent = as many rating 6 agents as i feel like assuming nothing more than time spent.

alternately, after chargen, i can simply buy a pirated rating 6 agent. it will cost me 1,500 nuyen. i can then simply start copying those agents as well, free of charge. likewise, it won't even be particularly expensive to pirate any software i may want for them.

alternately, within the first couple of runs, i am confident that i will be able to find and steal at least one decently-rated agent from someplace.

agents are not hard to get.

[Eratosthenes]

@ dumori: actually, if you want a cheesy combo, try combining mania: do what i say with phobia: not doing what i say. (you can most certainly inflict multiple qualities... you would just have to thread, hit them once with the first quality, then thread a new option and hit them with the second... any other interpretation means that in exchange for incompetence: pilot exotic vehicle (human-powered orbital skateboards), everyone in the group could be immune to psychotropic effects, and i think we can agree that isn't the intent (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif) )

also, remember that the more uncommon the mania/phobia subject is, the more powerful it can be. now, your GM will probably get an urge to slap you with a trout if you try this, but "mania: obeying shadowrunners who are in the corporate facility you are guarding for the next two hours and are also wearing <describe your character's clothes or someone else in the group> etc etc" is undoubtedly a very uncommon event (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

(note: i don't recommend actually trying to pull that one though. not least of all because of the fact that the tests to resist the action in question are already going to be extremely hard to pull off even without you using this kind of absurd stunt)

The sidebar on psychotropic-inflicted qualities (pg. 115 Unwired) specifically states that only the most crude form of psycho-emotional effects can be applied (and of course the GM has final say, natch). Somehow I think those aren't very crude. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Saint Sithney]

I'd say

1) Analyze - because it's perception
2) Stealth - because not fighting is victory by default
3) Exploit - because it's every matrix action ever
4) Shield - because TMs have garbage for response
5) Nuke - because it kills everything dead, and quickly
6) Command - because it's every non-matrix action ever
7) Data Bomb - because dropping a rating 12 Data Bomb is an atomic-level "fuck off" sign
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool.gif) Spoof - because rating 12 spoof means that the drone is damn well listening to you
9) Sniffer - because there's a threshold 3 test to grab airborne signals and snooping on wired transmissions is an opposed test to not be noticed, like stealth.
10) Blackness - Sometimes you just gotta off a dude.

What don't you need in the bionode?

Scan and Encrypt can be handled by your commlink. I suppose it would be nice to thread Scan to uber levels for that threshold 4 find hidden node test, in those rare cases when you don't have the 6 seconds to do the extended test. Still, not particularly worth it, considering how comparatively easy it is to write common progs. You need that high Software skill to thread anyway, so why not put it to use.
ECCM should be software as well since you'll want it on drones too. Might be cool to thread it to bust through jamming though.. Possible sub-in for 10-12.

Track and Decryption are for sprites/links. Decryption is an extended test, and a gimmie. Track isn't much different.
Defuse is for sprites too, since a TM shouldn't risk a Data Bomb anyway.
Edit and Corrupt will serve similar functions. Edit is useful for real world interactions like trid/audio manipulation. Corrupt is awesome because it doesn't even require you to find the info in order to trash it. Neither is particularly difficult, so neither needs more than Sprite-level attention.
Medic? Sprite, heal thyself.

Disarm? Ha! no.
Armor? Almost as useless as disarm.
Attack isn't as good as Nuke in any way vs digital threats or as good as Blacks against persistent people/TMs.
Purge and Reality Filter are total garbage.

Did i forget anything?

[Saint Sithney]

Except for Shredder, it's for attack only (specifically used for crash tests).

Shredder doesn't work anymore since they changed how crash node/program tests work.
Neither does Crashguard.

[Saint Sithney]

As for cybercombat, really, why bother?

If you can't take a single node on their system, then you're already screwed, so spoof a new ID and start your hack over. If you've taken that one node and own the hell out of it, drop a R12 Data Bomb with Pavlov and Biofeedback options on it.
Now you've got a fortress. Do that to every node you enter. If something (other than Black IC, which you can nuke anyway,) within the node overwhelms you, retreat to a Bomb node, thread your Command CF up and use it to remotely administer First Aid through the R6 medkit strapped to your meatbod. Now, try and hack back in, or go around whatever was giving you the trouble. Meanwhile, every node-external threat that tries to come after you gets blown to hell by the data bomb, the bomb resets and you laugh at them.