Max Comlink and node stats? Options

[yesferatu]

I was looking into hacking rules again today and I couldn't figure out what the max stats are.
Just using the core, what are the max Signal, System, Firewall & Response on a top of the line comlink?

What about nodes?
Can a node have higher than 6 on its stats?

I seem to remember a rule about only increasing a device +2 on its original rating.
Given that the highest firewall rating on an OS is 3...does that mean that the highest firewall on a comlink is 5?

[Neurosis]

I think that Commlinks max out at 6 and Nodes don't have a maximum.

Of course, that is based on a very quick skim of Unwired that was done some time ago.

[Fikealox]

I found that rule you mentioned on p. 222 of SR4A, under upgrading devices. I'm really not sure about nodes, though. Actually, I'm not sure about much with respect to the Matrix (except that Reloaded sucked (IMG:style_emoticons/default/upsidedown.gif) )

[edit:] Yerameyahu, in this link, mentions that to exceed base+2 you need something called Modular Electronics (or something) from the Changes file.]

This post has been edited by Fikealox: Sep 23 2010, 11:30 PM

[Neurosis]

Well nodes in unwired have some very very high ratings iirc.

[Yerameyahu]

You can only buy things in the ratings offered; typically, 6. Things exist above that, but you can't buy them. You're really not supposed to get them, either, except in extraordinary and dramatic circumstances.

[Prime Mover]

Theres mention of hardware and software rating higher then 6 in two seperate sidebars in Unwired along with some example systems rated 8 or 9. Also the fact that a UV system needs R10 minimum? Our house rule is 12 max for ratings with 7-9 being prime runner stuff and 10-12 being state of the art corporate or military grade stuff.

I have one hacker amongst my players who maxed out programing and tech and has one peice of software at R12. Took him 6 months via rules and thats with all the bells and whistles and some good rolls.

Edit This is possible with the optimization option form Unwired allowing a program to run at half it's rating as far as hardware is concerned.

[hobgoblin]

Do note, a comlink is a node, as any device with a matrix presence is basically a node. So your toaster may be a node.

And iirc, all commercially available nodes top out at 6, tho nexi have some special rules regarding the number of persona and running programs (agent/IC being a kind of program) that it can handle vs your average node.

[Minchandre]

You can only buy things in the ratings offered; typically, 6. Things exist above that, but you can't buy them. You're really not supposed to get them, either, except in extraordinary and dramatic circumstances.

War! (and a subsequent internet supplement) are supposed to include rules for MilSpec materials. I'm pretty much salivating.

[hobgoblin]

War! (and a subsequent internet supplement) are supposed to include rules for MilSpec materials. I'm pretty much salivating.

I think that will be more about things like APC/IFV then beyond rating 6 hardware and software.

[Yerameyahu]

Your toaster is a peripheral node ('smart' appliance, wifi-enabled), while your commlink is a 'standard' (general purpose computer) node.

I agree that WAR! *should* include military hacking. Information warfare is a big deal. I also agree that it's probably more about vehicles and troop statistics. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Summerstorm]

If you get some benign AI to use a node as a home it will significantly boosted too.(+half the correspondent attribute of the AI). This can caterpult your high-spec comlink up to use insanely high rating programs (Even higher if those are optimized).

So on a modified comlink (now rating 6) + AI home (+3) you can, theoratically, run a rating 18 (+9 optimizations) program.

[suoq]

I seem to remember a rule about only increasing a device +2 on its original rating.
Given that the highest firewall rating on an OS is 3...does that mean that the highest firewall on a comlink is 5?

That would be hardware rating (signal and response). Software (system and firewall) can be bought on their own. You don't need to buy one of the prepacked combos. So if you start with a 4/4 (avalon) commlink you can buy the response 6, signal 6, a system 6, and a firewall 6. You can run a single program at 7 by optimizing the commlink. (Not optimizing the software, that does something different.)

[KarmaInferno]

...in this link, mentions that to exceed base+2 you need something called Modular Electronics (or something) from the Changes file.

I'd point out that Modular Electronics is a VEHICLE modification, not a general one, so by default only vehicles can exceed Response or Signal +2.




-k

[Yerameyahu]

Is it? I hadn't looked to closely, because hiding *new* rules in the 4-4A Changes document is *crap*.

[hobgoblin]

I think it came into being as a reaction to people saying that upgrading drones to 6 was impossible under the +2 max rule in SR4A.

And yes, the SR4A changes file is badly in need of a refresh. I suspect it got sidelined when the economic issues became known, and noone have had the time to go back and finish it as they have been busy getting the almanac and such into print (to get a positive money flow again).

[Saint Sithney]

I was looking into hacking rules again today and I couldn't figure out what the max stats are.
Just using the core, what are the max Signal, System, Firewall & Response on a top of the line comlink?

6. Everything in core tops out at 6.

What about nodes?
Can a node have higher than 6 on its stats?

If you're the GM, it can go up to infinity. But nodes, just to clarify, are abstracts. Every wifi-enabled device (which is basically everything,) in your house together, can be considered a single node - your Home Node. At the same time, each individual device could also be considered a node. So, a node is a comlink, a library, a bank of supercomputers, a credstick, an airplane, an RFID tag. It's... complicated. As complicated as you like it to be.

I seem to remember a rule about only increasing a device +2 on its original rating.
Given that the highest firewall rating on an OS is 3...does that mean that the highest firewall on a comlink is 5?

The +2 increase rule is for hardware only, not Software. Firewall is even a special case on top of that because it is an OS function. You can buy a Rating 6 Firewall and plug it into any device of any Response rating. Your cyberarm, your contact lenses, your auto-injector, whatever. Generally these things are just slaved together as a single node. Pretty sure this is what's referred to as your PAN.

You can run a single program at 7 by optimizing the commlink.

Quick clarification here. Commlink optimization doesn't increase the effective level of a program directly, it adds +1 to your DP when using that program. So, you can only optimize for programs which require rolls, and not for things which have specific effects like Stealth, ECCM, or Data Bomb. Well, maybe for Data Bomb, if the bomb is on the link and you're rolling to resist a disarm attempt.

[sabs]

There are no rules for making a commlink over 6
There are no rules for making a nexus over 6.

There are no rules that limit what rating you can try to code a piece of software at.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

6. Everything in core tops out at 6.

If you're the GM, it can go up to infinity. But nodes, just to clarify, are abstracts. Every wifi-enabled device (which is basically everything,) in your house together, can be considered a node - your Home Node. At the same time, each individual device could also be considered a node. So, a node is a comlink, a library, a bank of supercomputers, a credstick, an airplane, an RFID tag. It's... complicated. As complicated as you like it to be.

Indeed... It is very hard to mirror many types systems with a single node, some would say impossible...

Quick clarification here. Commlink optimization doesn't increase the effective level of a program directly, it adds +1 to your DP when using that program. So, you can only optimize for programs which require rolls, and not for things which have specific effects like Stealth, ECCM, or Data Bomb. Well, maybe for Data Bomb, if the bomb is on the link and you're rolling to resist a disarm attempt.

Well... Stealth is Actively Rolled, so Comlink Optimization would work on it once you were inside of a node... And your Data Bomb Example of course would work as well... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smokin.gif)

[Saint Sithney]

Ah yeah, it could work for Matrix Perception tests. Good catch.
I was just pointing out that it won't raise the threshold for detection, subtract dice from a trace attempt, or any other thing which actually having a program of rating +1 would accomplish.

[Udoshi]

There are no rules for making a commlink over 6
There are no rules for making a nexus over 6.

There are no rules that limit what rating you can try to code a piece of software at.

See the unwired sidebar on page 196, Military Grade Hardware.

They exist, but people in the shadows aren't meant to ever get their hands on them.

If a group of my players were trying to hack a bank, or any other large, well-funded, important and secured public service..... I'd be comfortable giving the bank stats higher than 6(particularly the firewall) to reflect the fact that its running on an entire server farm full of cutting edge nexi, and the hacker's on a commlink.(most likely)

[sabs]

See the unwired sidebar on page 196, Military Grade Hardware.

They exist, but people in the shadows aren't meant to ever get their hands on them.

If a group of my players were trying to hack a bank, or any other large, well-funded, important and secured public service..... I'd be comfortable giving the bank stats higher than 6(particularly the firewall) to reflect the fact that its running on an entire server farm full of cutting edge nexi, and the hacker's on a commlink.(most likely)

Yes they exist.
But there are no rules for /making/ them. There are no price lines for the PC's no rules onhow to build them.
There is a "they exist, they are special, use them for your NPCs if you think it's necessary"

that's very different than there being rules on how a pc can build one.

[Udoshi]

No -hard- rules. There are loose ones.

Player> "I wanna build a response 7 chip from scratch!"
GM> "Alright. Lemme think about it. Sure, i'll allow it. But this is going to take a while"
Player> "Sweet! How long?"
GM> "Lets see. Mammoth effort and extreme difficulty extended test on..... Logic+electronics design"
Player> *cries*
GM> *holding up arsenal* "And that's just for the DIY blueprint. Once you have that, you can think about making it."
Player> Nevermind...
GM> *Gloating*
Player> I want to steal one instead.
GM> .... shit. *grumbling* Well, at least he gets Shadowrun. A little too well...

[Dumori]

Indeed... It is very hard to mirror many types systems with a single node, some would say impossible...



Well... Stealth is Actively Rolled, so Comlink Optimization would work on it once you were inside of a node... And your Data Bomb Example of course would work as well... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smokin.gif)

A rating 12 databomb on your com it's almost certain to fry the hacker.

[sabs]

Sure no /hard/ rules.
But it falls into the realm of GM buy in and house ruling. So YMMVaFL.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

A rating 12 databomb on your com it's almost certain to fry the hacker.

Most likely, I do not dispute that in the least... Hopefully it is MY Rating 12 Databomb catching the intruding hacker, though, and not the other way around... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)