From Germany with Love Options

[Medicineman]

one of our Users (Loki) made this and asked me to show it to you

http://shadowhelix.de/images/2/2e/Animatio...Nordamerika.gif

with a showcasedance
Medicineman

[Angelone]

Wow that's nice... Thank him for me.

[Toloran]

This is VERY nice. I just wish I could read it XD

[Marcus]

/cheer!!! thats is sweet. I wish i could read it. But Awesome as is!!!

[Medicineman]

New & improved and now in English

http://shadowhelix.de/images/0/08/Animatio...ka_englisch.gif

with an english Dance
Medicineman

[Marcus]

Totally Sweet Gonna show it at our next game. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
Many thanks for the time and effort!

[Mayhem_2006]

Very nice!

[Ascalaphus]

I never before realized just how little of Canada remained after the GGD. Very nice material!

[Saint Sithney]

Danke!

[kjones]

This is really cool! I wish this could have been included somehow with the 6WA.

Yes, I know it's an animation. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[Dumori]

This is really cool! I wish this could have been included somehow with the 6WA.

Yes, I know it's an animation. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

FLIP BOOK STYLE!

[Nifft]

Nice. I'm planning on translating this & posting the frames for my group on our wiki's timeline.

Thank you! -- N

[Stahlseele]

Uhm, you did see the English and the German link yes? O.o

[Kruger]

Interesting. I guess I'd never really thought about how little of Canada there was in the UCAS. Watching that graph, I find it hard to believe that the United States gave up its distinctive name and flag to add a section of land smaller than some states. Seems more realistic the USA would have accepted Canadian provinces as states. I think this was some kind of marketing thing for FASA to try and not alienate Canadian gamers, lol.

Hmm. And poor Califonia. Talk about getting the short end of the stick. San Diego taken over by Mexicans, ripped apart by The Big One, then losing what was left of the good parts of California to the NAN.

[raben-aas]

This is really cool! I wish this could have been included somehow with the 6WA.
Yes, I know it's an animation. nyahnyah.gif

Say, EVER heard of AR?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RuZY1NfJ3k

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Brainpiercing7.6...]

Pretty good. I must say I've never paid much attention to all these things previously, because the fluff is too much to read (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif) . So it's nice to see it like that.

It's just a BIT too quick, though. If you're following the text sometimes you can't see some of the smaller map changes. A click-through version would be nice.

[Ascalaphus]

It's just a BIT too quick, though. If you're following the text sometimes you can't see some of the smaller map changes. A click-through version would be nice.

True, that made showing and explaining it to the players a bit ungainly.

[pbangarth]

Interesting. I guess I'd never really thought about how little of Canada there was in the UCAS. Watching that graph, I find it hard to believe that the United States gave up its distinctive name and flag to add a section of land smaller than some states. Seems more realistic the USA would have accepted Canadian provinces as states. I think this was some kind of marketing thing for FASA to try and not alienate Canadian gamers, lol.

If it was a ploy to keep the Canadian fans happy, then it mirrored what could be the (in story) reason for the accommodation of name and symbols (both trivial to be honest).

The part of Canada shown to be absorbed into the UCAS holds on the order of 15 to 20 million people, not counting migrants from other parts of Canada lost to the NAN, and the Southern Ontario portion is home to approximately 40% of the manufacturing in all of Canada. So there's a lot of economic incentive to entice this block to join. Incentive would be necessary because, political hype and SR fluff aside, the only province in Canada which could actually afford to go it alone is Ontario. On top of population and manufacturing/agriculture base, in Canada there is an economic tool to share wealth among the provinces to equalize things like infrastructure, health care and education. Aside from the recessive times resulting from the recent blip in the global economy, Ontario puts on the order of 20 billion dollars into that system annually to help most of the rest of Canada. Quebec receives on the order of 6 billion a year. Oddly enough, a lot of the rest of Canada has cheaper education, health care, day care etc. than Ontario. Ontarians wonder how that happened.

Imagine what your state could do with 20 billion extra every year. Were I a political leader of Ontario at the time of unification, I would have told the U.S. to go stick their flag and country name. And stuck around for extra terms as the voters rewarded me for helping the Republic of Ontario grow filthy rich.

[Kruger]

From what I saw of that map, there was less than half of Ontario left. It's an interesting thought to see if an independent Ontario could survive, but it loses its northern half, which is the rural half with much of the natural resources aside from the hydroelectric power of the Niagara river. You can call right now an "aside" and a "blip" but imagine the "blip" caused by the shake-up of the world's economy, and the extreme trauma to the American economy which, like it or not, is the anchor of the Ontario economy because of the fact that it is based primarily on the motor vehicle industry and ever increasing urbanization that is diminishing its agricultural industry. Ontario is essentially the Canadian Michigan, and by 2050+ probably owned mostly by Ares and Japanese corps, lol.

I dunno. I understand your nationalism, but I just don't see how Ontario survives independently losing many of its international markets, and cut off from everything that makes Canada rich. Joining the United States gives it access to the intact infrastructure of the heartland of the US. If you look at the division of the NAN and the USA, the USA still kept most of the biggest agricultural states, and most of the biggest manufacturing states. Canada on the other hand lost almost all of its natural resources and only retained production facilities largely owned by American and Japanese corporations. I'm just saying that if 5% of Canada's land mass was merging with 50% of America's, I just don't see the UCAS thing. Ottawa at that point probably would see no real viable options.

Understandably what the writers at FASA wanted to do was balkanize North America. Even the CAS split doesn't make much sense anymore. Most of the issues that divided Northerners and Southerners are long gone, and only the most ignorant of Southerners would actually favor the split. Certainly nobody in the government or industry. But the shake-ups make for a more diverse and "alien" future for the players.

[pbangarth]

From what I saw of that map, there was less than half of Ontario left. It's an interesting thought to see if an independent Ontario could survive, but it loses its northern half, which is the rural half with much of the natural resources aside from the hydroelectric power of the Niagara river. You can call right now an "aside" and a "blip" but imagine the "blip" caused by the shake-up of the world's economy, and the extreme trauma to the American economy which, like it or not, is the anchor of the Ontario economy because of the fact that it is based primarily on the motor vehicle industry and ever increasing urbanization that is diminishing its agricultural industry. Ontario is essentially the Canadian Michigan, and by 2050+ probably owned mostly by Ares and Japanese corps, lol.

Many SR timeline nations survive just fine with major multinational corporate ownership. The large, northern chunk of Ontario is boreal forest, most of it unsuitable for agriculture. The prime agricultural land is in the south, by the Great Lakes. There is a fair bit of mining and forestry in the north. Of course Ontario's industrial output depends heavily on the American market (decreasingly so in the last few years), but what reason would there be for that market connection to change? The poorer market in the US indeed would be an issue, but it doesn't collapse. Neither would that of Ontario. The robustness of the Canadian economy in general and that of Ontario in particular shows already today. And there still is that buffer of 20 billion dollars a year. Coincidentally, that value is roughly equal to the "Transportation Equipment" sector of the Ontario to which you allude, which makes up just over 19% of the province's GDP. All of this is in the context of the fluff of SR which shows only Québec going it alone. That's not rational.

I dunno. I understand your nationalism,

Nationalism without Rationalism is a deadly trap (see above). I honestly try to avoid that. If my arguments don't make sense and are countered logically and with facts, it behooves me to change my opinion.

but I just don't see how Ontario survives independently losing many of its international markets, and cut off from everything that makes Canada rich. Joining the United States gives it access to the intact infrastructure of the heartland of the US.

It already has that.

I'm just saying that if 5% of Canada's land mass was merging with 50% of America's, I just don't see the UCAS thing. Ottawa at that point probably would see no real viable options.

Or look at it another way, 35% to 40% of the population of Canada, running about 40% of the industry maintains its close and cordial relationship with 50% of the US population.

But the shake-ups make for a more diverse and "alien" future for the players.

I'll buy that one!

[Kruger]

It already has that.
Or look at it another way, 35% to 40% of the population of Canada, running about 40% of the industry maintains its close and cordial relationship with 50% of the US population.

Yeah, but Canada's population is less than that of California alone. The greater New York metropolitan area has something like 20 million by itself.

The NAN states (Colorado (Minus Denver Metro), Wyoming, Arizona, Nevada, New Mexico, Utah, Idaho, Oregon, Washington (minus Seattle metro, Hawaii(not NAN, but gone), Alaska, and Montana with parts of the Dakotas and western Nebraska) would be roughly 8-9% of the US population. California, Texas, New York, and Florida were still all part of the USA at that point. Those four states, not adjusted for time line attrition, have almost 100 million people living in them right now according to Census estimates.

I mean, I'm not trying to demean Canada in any way. It's just that even if we're talking most of the 11 million Ontarians(?), and another million or so from the slivers of Manitoba and Saskatchewan, and Newfoundland, plus say a million and a half from Nova Scotia and New Brunswick, it's still less people than Florida. There would still be around 275 million Americans left in what remained of the USA.

[sabs]

the crazy ass sr3 writers put the population of Algonkuin Manitou Council at 100 million (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I think they were on high crack.

The population thing is weird. VITAS I killed 1/4 the world pop? VITAS II did it again?

that's a huge amount of depopulation.

[Kruger]

That's why I figure the modern figures are probably a good baseline, if a little high. You counteract the natural increases in population with all of the timeline's decreases (VITAS, multiple wars, social upheaval, infrastructure upheaval etc). Shadowrun isn't quite apocalyptic, but it seems to have tried to get close, lol. Sometimes it makes you wonder if all the technological innovations the game describes would even be possible with all the world shattering changes the timeline would have caused. Crash 2.0 is one of the worst offenders. That could very well have resulted in complete anarchy, and certainly in global economic meltdown

[Nath]

the crazy ass sr3 writers put the population of Algonkuin Manitou Council at 100 million (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I don't get it. Native American Nations volume II, page 61 (SR2), reads 22,548,000 inhabitants in the Algonkin-Manitou, Shadows of North America, page 20 (SR3), reads 5,066,000.

[sabs]

I think it's in Anarchists book of North America..

I might also be miss-remembering and it was the 22.5 Million number which irritated me.
Especially given that places like Quebec have significantly less people than that.