Dice pool help for rigger remote controlling a drone Options

[EH44]

I am working on a character build that focuses on using drones in remote control mode. I am trying to both max out possible dice and also check the math for what I am including. Any critique would be appreciated. As a side note, my use of codeslinger with control device is a bit cheesy and not sure if this is even a valid use, might chuck it out of principle- but I am including it here for discussion for maxing out potential. Likewise, the optimization of the command program can be the same way, but I think is pretty straightforward and not really cheesy.

givens: 6 command program, 4 gunnery, 4 dodge, commlink optimized for command program, codeslinger: control device, running hot sim in VR.
additional: using LEBD drone with an AK-98 w/SG link in the weapon mount

Attack dice: 17 dice (6 command, 4 gunnery, 2 smart gun, 2 hot sim, +1 for optimized commlink (if valid), +2 for codeslinger control device (if valid)

Full Defense: 15 dice (6 command, 4 dodge, 2 hot sim, +1 for optimized commlink (if valid), +2 for codeslinger: control device (if valid)

So any thoughts on the math, any other things I am missing and could include, any things that seem wonky or unworkable? I am still very on the fence about the codeslinger working in this fashion. Thanks for the help.

[Yerameyahu]

I think you can specialize Gunnery and/or Dodge for a +2, depending on what choices work. Gunnery (Ballistic) is very broad, for example. It's a little weird that you use 'human' Dodge for Remote Control, but you can specialize that in (Ranged Combat); very few melee attacks hit flying drones.

Remember that VR, I believe, gives the extra benefit of -1 Threshold; most people treat this as effectively +1 free hit (it's a little weird, but hey).

If you wanted to get really crazy, you could be a Technomancer and thread Command up (12+?), Technomancers have access to other bonuses that function roughly as Codeslinger (IIRC), and holy crap, sprites are ridiculous; or invest in Software and code your own Command (anything 7-12, depending on how much time you invest).

An adept would be able to greatly increase the Gunnery and Dodge skills.

I can understand wanting to know the absolute max, but you don't actually need it for a *character*. 'Good enough' is good enough. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Also, don't forget that your drone will be instantly jammed and hacked. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[KarmaInferno]

Tactical Network Software is good for a lot of different tests, and also helps any drones running in Autonomous Mode. You as a drone rigger can usually be your own TacNet - Have at least two FlySpys set up with extended sensors, the TacNet software, and maybe Chameleon Cloak, and have them constantly orbiting overhead.

Active Targeting is really good if you can afford the extra simple action. It's a Sensor Test on a target that adds hits as bonus dice to your Gunnery tests against that target, and you retain the bonus dice as long as you can maintain the lock. Remember that Sensor Tests are Sensor + Perception, so that Vision Enhancement and sometimes Audio Enhancement can add dice.

On the Defensive side, remember that if an incoming attack's final DV is less than your Vehicle Armor, it bounces instead of doing any damage. I see a lot of folks forget this.

Adepts are really nifty riggers as they can boost their skills like crazy. Remember that Improved Ability (Gunnery) is a vehicle skill, not a combat skill, so benefits from cheaper power point cost. Enhanced Perception can add Gunnery test dice via Active Targeting. Getting a few spells sustained on you is nice to - Increase Reflexes and Combat Sense are nifty.

Technomancers can get silly high effective program ratings.

There's no mechanical reason to use an assault rifle in a vehicle weapon mount. Use one of the Avail 12 light machine guns - it's a weapon mount, which is pretty damn illegal to begin with, so you might as well not worry about the legality of the weapon installed. LMGs also are able to take advantage of the increased belted ammo supply that a weapon mount provides. Ideally, also have an underbarrel grenade launcher installed on the LMG for those extra special situations.

Also, if you stick to using LMGs, you can save on skill points for your personal firearms - put the points into Heavy Weapons instead of Automatics, and as a bonus the Heavy Weapons skill includes launch weapons. Gunnery is going to be your primary attack skill, though.

Don't skimp on the vehicle attributes and autosofts - remember that your drones can only be directly controlled one at a time, so if you're fielding 5 drones, most of the time 4 of them will be in Autonomous Mode. They'll need every dice pool bonus they can get.



-k

[MikeKozar]

There's no mechanical reason to use an assault rifle in a vehicle weapon mount. Use one of the Avail 12 light machine guns - it's a weapon mount, which is pretty damn illegal to begin with, so you might as well not worry about the legality of the weapon installed. LMGs also are able to take advantage of the increased belted ammo supply that a weapon mount provides. Ideally, also have an underbarrel grenade launcher installed on the LMG for those extra special situations.

Also, if you stick to using LMGs, you can save on skill points for your personal firearms - put the points into Heavy Weapons instead of Automatics, and as a bonus the Heavy Weapons skill includes launch weapons. Gunnery is going to be your primary attack skill, though.

Don't skimp on the vehicle attributes and autosofts - remember that your drones can only be directly controlled one at a time, so if you're fielding 5 drones, most of the time 4 of them will be in Autonomous Mode. They'll need every dice pool bonus they can get.

I had a good career using Automatics on modified Rotordrones, but like Karma pointed out, there isn't a mechanical reason to do so. I found that the lighter weapons were appropriate to the power level of the game, and they had advantages as far as availability and licensing - remember that the mount in the LEBD is legal, since it is a stock feature and not a modification. Whether or not these reasons affect your game is up to the GM.

Be sure and find out where the GM stands on the optional rules for vehicle recoil compensation(Arsenal, p.105) - either your drones ignore recoil entirely, or get their Body score as free RC. My Rotordrones wound up with Ares HVAR rifles firing a narrow long burst and a wide long burst on every IP, thanks to those rules.

Grenades can be a major game-changer, especially if you go the Heavy Weps route Karma mentions above; if your drones can pop smoke or flashbang the opposition as their second Simple Action in a round, the attack should have an effect even if recoil has fouled your aim.

One hotly debated mod (don't listen to Dumpshock, just ask your GM!) is adding Smartlinks or Laser sights to weps mounted on drones. If it is allowed, easy bonus.

I also spent the nuyen to add a Safe Target system to the weapons on my drones; given how vulnerable they are to hijacking, a little insurance that they would not shoot my team up seemed prudent.

If you are going to be VR-simming it, be sure and pick up a Control Rig Booster, as well as some good biofeedback filters. I'd also advocate pushing the armor on the drones as high as you can - nine points of hardened armor bounces a surprising amount of attacks.

On the subject of upgrades, spend the cash to crank up the Sensors score on your LEBD. Getting to 6 isn't tough, and it makes killing bad guys a lot easier.

It's been a whole since I was Rigging professionally, but I hope this at least gives you some ideas. Good luck!

[Yerameyahu]

The Control Rig Booster only affects Jumped-In rigging, and it only affects Piloting.

[Saint Sithney]

Also, the Control Rig Booster doesn't mesh with the Simsense Booster, so it'll cost you 1 potential IP.

On top of that, they're described as a special breed of Neural Amplifier Nanites, which could cause a GM to rule that they count towards the "maximum of 2" for NANs, preventing you from having Limbic or Neorcortical bonuses.

[Marcus]

This seems like a good place to throw this up.
We were working on a concept for a prime runner body guard named Six Gun Sam. The concept was Sam was one man with 6 guns (lol)
This is what i put forward, what did I miss anything? Also the over Modification rules (see Arsenal) my best guess on flight conversion was the cost and difficulty modifiers were already included but I wasn't sure on that. Thoughts?

Ares Crusaders
Damage 4P AP N/A Mode SA/BF RC 2 Ammo 40©
Weapon Commlink- (Hermes Ikons (Response 4, Signal 3)
(System 6, Firewall 6)
Software
Clearsite 5
Fuzzy Logic 5
Tacnet 4
Maneuver (Mini-Drone) 5
Targeting (Automatics) 5
Weapon Personality
Pilot Upgrade- Rating 5 Initiative= (Pilot Rating+Response( 8 ))+2 passes (3)
(Body 1, Armor 1, Sensor 1)
Flight system threshold 36 8 Slots.
(Handling -3, Acceleration 2/10, Speed 10, 2 Mins of Fuel)
(Over-modification total 10)
Requires A Facility and Special Skill.

Full Stat-line
Custom Modified Mini-Drone Ares Crusader Smartgun-
Handling -3, Accel 2/10, Speed 10, Body 1, Armor 1, Sensors 1
Damage 4P, AP - Modes SA/BF RC 2 Ammo 40 © (Damage varies by Ammo type)
Pools- Initiative 9 (3 passes), Maneuver 11, Attack 14, Defense 9, Perception 14

[Marcus]

Oops double posted now where is that delete button.

[Makki]

hire a hacker to program a Command rating X with Optimization (X-6). X depending on how much time you can afford to wait. Or hire a shadowrunner team to steal that military Command program from Ares, might be R7-9
and don't forget Handling bonus. it might add to Dodge. Gearhead can add +1 to Handling.

[DMiller]

Be sure and find out where the GM stands on the optional rules for vehicle recoil compensation(Arsenal, p.105) - either your drones ignore recoil entirely, or get their Body score as free RC. My Rotordrones wound up with Ares HVAR rifles firing a narrow long burst and a wide long burst on every IP, thanks to those rules.

Grenades can be a major game-changer, especially if you go the Heavy Weps route Karma mentions above; if your drones can pop smoke or flashbang the opposition as their second Simple Action in a round, the attack should have an effect even if recoil has fouled your aim.

Sorry no second simple action. To fire a weapon system is a complex action (SR4 p239). The 2 long bursts out of the HVAR can be argued as a single Full Auto Burst and as such okay, but you don't get any simple actions with vehicle mounted weapons. This helps balance a Riggier's ability to get 5 IP in real space (not just the matrix).

-D

[Jaid]

don't forget that you can specialise your pilot skills in remote operation (no really, that's a valid specialisation listed in each non-exotic pilot skill) as well as the gunnery(ballistic) and dodge(ranged) suggestions earlier.

and yes, codeslinger technically works like that. your GM may of course change that, but it does in fact work (you would take codeslinger in the 'control device' matrix action). some may argue that this is broken because it applies to so many situations, but then again... a control rig gives +2 dice to almost as many situations, and costs 2 BP of resources, which is a lot cheaper than 10 BP of qualities.

note that technically, adept skill boosts do work in the matrix (that is, nothing indicates that they don't work in full VR, and the default is that they do work in general, therefore the official rule is that adepts can have modified to 9 or 10 their skills even in full VR... though again, this is subject to change by your GM as many don't like it, mostly those who remember earlier editions when this was explicitly not possible). this would allow you to bypass the restriction on combining simsense booster and control rig boosters, since the control rig boosters would be unnecessary.

also, absolutely no point in boosting heavy weapons... anything you fire from a weapon mount is gunnery, and it doesn't matter even the tiniest bit whether it's a weapon mount with a crossbow in it or a weapon mount with a laser or a weapon mount with an LMG or a weapon mount with a rocket launcher, they all use the same skill. which, as was pointed out, can be cheaply boosted with adept powers.

commlink optimisation should be fine.

again, *technically* smartgun works on a drone, even one with no human pilot. that is, much like the adept skill boosts, the default is that it does work, there is no exception made for drones, and therefore any drone that can satisfy the requirements (having the smartgun system in the gun, plus an image link and smartgun link for the drone) can use it. as was noted, this does upset some GMs, and your GM may rule differently.

interestingly enough, sensors don't really mean anything on a remote controlled drone. you use command to replace the attribute, and sensor is clearly the attribute in sensor tests. again, it is likely that your GM won't like this because in this case it really just defies common sense, so check with your GM first (it has been my experience that if you try to surprise your GM with rules technicalities, it just makes your GM annoyed and less likely to accept the rule no matter how you present it; they're much more likely to be ok with it if the question is asked in advance)

grenades are nice (though sadly i don't think they qualify for the ballistic specialisation of gunnery), but it's a complex action to shoot one.

active targeting is not a simple action when using command, it is a complex action. in fact, all simple actions become complex actions when using a command program. this is one of the few drawbacks (the advantages being the fact that 600 nuyen worth of software on your commlink which is unlikely to get hit by a missile is a lot less expensive than the several thousand nuyen worth of software and hardware modifications you would need to get similar dice pool for your drones in any other way, which is drastically more likely to get hit by a missile)

[Yerameyahu]

I don't think the rules say that Sensor is replaced by Command. Perception is clearly on that 'Common Rigger Table': Sensor + Perception.

[sabs]

Would PuSHeD help in this case?
It's hard to tell because the command rigger table is a bit weird.

[Yerameyahu]

It's a dirty trick to apply PuSHeD to any test that you're not also rolling Logic for, but yeah, it does work for 'Logic-linked skills'. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Command doesn't qualify AFAIK…

[sabs]

It's a perfectly legal dirty trick. It says logic-linked (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) not Logic tests.

You actually can't use PuSHeD on memory tests given the wording of it.

[Yerameyahu]

Right.