Cybered up to the Max!, Why so Cybered? Options

[Androcomputus]

Something has always bothered me in shadowrun games... the need to be as close as you can be to a cyberzombie...

For instance, my players who make cyberized characters only have .1 essence left. How do you roleplay that?!

From the book, I am guessing that would make you an emotionless husk, with no sense of a job well done, or the terrible feeling after losing a comrade... just 1 and 0.

Did we complete this operation? What is the next operation?

[pbangarth]

Something has always bothered me in shadowrun games... the need to be as close as you can be to a cyberzombie...
For instance, my players who make cyberized characters only have .1 essence left. How do you roleplay that?!
From the book, I am guessing that would make you an emotionless husk, with no sense of a job well done, or the terrible feeling after losing a comrade... just 1 and 0.
Did we complete this operation? What is the next operation?

In the BBB's initial description of Essence,

Essence is a measure of life force, of a body’s wholeness. It
represents the body’s cohesiveness and holistic strength. Things that are
invasive to the body, such as cyberware and bioware, reduce
Essence. If a character abuses her body repeatedly with chemicals, toxins,
or even just negligence over a long period of time, she may lose
Essence as well. Long-time drug addicts and chipheads who have done
permanent damage to their systems have lost Essence.

the effect is primarily described as a physical one, rather than an emotional or mental one. Now, the effect on Magic and Resonance ratings suggests there are emotional and mental aspects as well. But I think the PC would not necessarily be 'soulless', but maybe 'disconnected', 'disillusioned', 'depressed', or maybe even desperately seeking some meaning or emotional connection.

[Stahlseele]

That's what the cyber psychosis flaw is there for.
If they don't take it, they are not affected.
Their characters simply deal really well with it.
Remaking their body in their own image.
Overcoming their own limitations.
Becoming Superhuman in the process.
And it WILL show in their behaviour sooner or later.
At least, if they realize that they can stand there
and take a beating from a troll without flinching.
Then they will realize that they can take an HPist
or Shotgun. TO THE FACE. Without flinching.
And they will start acting accordingly. I hope.

[Sixgun_Sage]

In the BBB's initial description of Essence,the effect is primarily described as a physical one, rather than an emotional or mental one. Now, the effect on Magic and Resonance ratings suggests there are emotional and mental aspects as well. But I think the PC would not necessarily be 'soulless', but maybe 'disconnected', 'disillusioned', 'depressed', or maybe even desperately seeking some meaning or emotional connection.

Pretty much this, a person suffering from disconnect, depression and those sorts of emotional rifts might actually try to overcompensate though, there is a whole range of responses that make for great story telling and yu should discuss them with your players. This is why I play 20 questions with my group during character creation and veto any ideas that a plaer refuses to explore or take seriously.

[Neurosis]

I know that this topic was a question, but I agree with this topic. I have often wondered about this too.

Also, 20 questions is a great idea and one I should do more often.

the effect is primarily described as a physical one, rather than an emotional or mental one.

I would like to see this roleplayed more as well. Characters with heavy cyber who feel terrible after over-exerting themselves, who are constantly popping immuno-suppressants to keep their body from rejecting the implants. Obviously this would be more emphasized with cyberware than with bioware.

[Glyph]

Honestly, I wouldn't worry about it unless the player takes one of the appropriate flaws. Essence is mainly a game balance thing.

That said, how a character feels about his implants, and deals with them, should be part of the backstory, just as an awakened character's relationship with his magic should be. It doesn't have to be all gloom and doom, though. Most people would find gaining superhuman abilities to be an improvement.

It can add to the roleplaying, definitely. And not just the Essence level, but what kind of implants you have, and what they can do. One of my characters, cybered up to the max, disliked his mnemonic enhancers the most of all - I figured that if you do violent and sometimes unsavory things for a living, perfect recall can be a curse at times.

[Medicineman]

Something has always bothered me in shadowrun games... the need to be as close as you can be to a cyberzombie...

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

my Char "Cyb Ork" has 0.02 Essence left over
the Disadvantage Callous
and Intimidation (spezial. Callous)
I play him like Schwarzeneggers Terminator and its not easy playing someone without any Emotions

From the book, I am guessing that would make you an emotionless husk, with no sense of a job well done, or the terrible feeling after losing a comrade... just 1 and 0. ...

Not necesserily .There is no Rule that forces You to become an emotional Wrack. It is perfectly OK and makes a lot of Sense ,but its quite voluntarily only


He who Dances with Emotions
Medicineman

[Teryon]

From a purely mechanical perspective, Ive come to treat essence as a limitation to provide some degree of balance. From my own POV...it makes absolutely no bloody sense whatsoever without invoking magic as a fundamental force to living beings, awakened or no. If you duplicate the signals a natural hand would send to your brain, then the brain`ll treat the source of those signals as a hand. If your eyes make the world look differently, it likely would be interpreted by the brain as if you were on some kind of hallucinogenic bender all the time and eventually become something you just got used to as normal became redefined.

But since there IS magic then its a disruption of life-force, of chi, and the closer ye get the less and more human you feel. Ironically you'd feel less 'real' and more 'mundane', flat and dull probably.

[Sixgun_Sage]

Except there are recognized psychological effects to both inasive and non-invasive surgeries Teryon, that is a very real part of the thinking behind cyber bases neurosis, the subconscious realization of body alteration and equating it with the loss of humanity. You actually sometimes see this in plastic surgery, reconstructive surgery, and other fields....

[Dakka Dakka]

Not necesserily .There is no Rule that forces You to become an emotional Wrack. It is perfectly OK and makes a lot of Sense ,but its quite voluntarily only

Exactly. Enforced mental disabilities due to cyberware is Cyberpunk 2020 but not SR.
I remember a novel where one of the characters (Jaywalker) is a genuine sociopath, he is also heavily cybered. It however does not become clear whether the disorder comes from the ware or if he was ill even before he replaced his meat with metal. I think blaming it on the 'ware is a bit too easy.

[Dumori]

Except there are recognized psychological effects to both inasive and non-invasive surgeries Teryon, that is a very real part of the thinking behind cyber bases neurosis, the subconscious realization of body alteration and equating it with the loss of humanity. You actually sometimes see this in plastic surgery, reconstructive surgery, and other fields....

But they are not a certainty just something that can happen.

Exactly. Enforced mental disabilities due to cyberware is Cyberpunk 2020 but not SR.
I remember a novel where one of the characters (Jaywalker) is a genuine sociopath, he is also heavily cybered. It however does not become clear whether the disorder comes from the ware or if he was ill even before he replaced his meat with metal. I think blaming it on the 'ware is a bit too easy.

I'f it was a tone of combat ware I'll guess prior sociopathy.

[Stahlseele]

i still say magic should be treated like high loss of cyber.
none of the two is natural. not to the human mind.

[Dumori]

What completly ignored by the rules but with soem quailitys you can take for flavour. Though one could argue the magic is natral to humans just not in a down cycle.

[Laodicea]

A character with .1 essence is going to have serious trouble as soon as they get sick or get shot. Someone takes off your arm with a shotgun and you've just lost 1 essence. -.9 essence now. You're dead.

[Sixgun_Sage]

Oh, I agree Dumori, my whole point is that the mechanics for how it is handled in game are fine, any problem tends to be with players and gm's not thoroughly discussing it to get on the same page. There are a number of reasons augmentation may or may not affect a specific individual's psyche and exploring that is part of the fun of playing a cybered up character.

[Stahlseele]

A character with .1 essence is going to have serious trouble as soon as they get sick or get shot. Someone takes off your arm with a shotgun and you've just lost 1 essence. -.9 essence now. You're dead.

Wrong.
You don't lose Essence when you lost body parts.
You do lose essence when you replace them with something that was not completely directly cloned of your own tissue.

[Laodicea]

Wrong.
You don't lose Essence when you lost body parts.
You do lose essence when you replace them with something that was not completely directly cloned of your own tissue.

So you don't replace the arm? Either way the character is retired.

[Stahlseele]

If you replace the arm with a simple cloned arm or regrow it, then you do NOT lose essence.

[Yerameyahu]

I liked the old (SR3) way better: major injury loses essence. Yes, that's not how it works any longer.

[Laodicea]

I liked the old (SR3) way better: major injury loses essence. Yes, that's not how it works any longer.

I won't lie. I often get the two mixed up.

[Summerstorm]

Well... with theoptional stress rules... you can pretty much make something up. Why not essence loss? Or if someone is addicted to some crap... you can just take a bit after some time.

[Silbeg]

Except there are recognized psychological effects to both inasive and non-invasive surgeries Teryon, that is a very real part of the thinking behind cyber bases neurosis, the subconscious realization of body alteration and equating it with the loss of humanity. You actually sometimes see this in plastic surgery, reconstructive surgery, and other fields....

To an extent, I can agree with this.. my mouth has never felt quite right since I had corrective surgery.... and there is a spot on my knee that still doesn't have sensation 10-years after my ACL repair.

I can only imaging what getting a cyberarm would do to you.

So, that being said, shouldn't there be essence loss if you take massive damage, and have to have reconstructive surgery? Probably, but it doesn't really add much to the game. Really, you get used to it... it is always there, but you adjust, just like any other physical ailments or injuries.

[Stahlseele]

I liked the old (SR3) way better: major injury loses essence. Yes, that's not how it works any longer.

Ah, yes, the critical damage rules . . which were, as most things, basically a huge slap in the face for the mundane cyber-user . .
a magic user probably has less chance of getting hurt like that because he is less likely to be out in the open in a fight for one . .
and on the other hand, he is less likely to die from this, if it ever SHOULD happen to him to begin with, because he still has most
if not all of his original essence left usually, because he needs that for his magic to work at an optimal rate to begin with again . .
If he gets it, he loses one essence and one magic. and can go on to become an initiate and get his magic, if not his essence, back.
While the cybered up to the gills samurai? Simply dies. Again machine is getting the short stick. Or was. However you look at it . .

[Yerameyahu]

I don't think the magic user had less chance of being hurt, but god forbid replacing most of your body with invasive technology have penalties. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Glyph]

Given the advances in medical technology, I don't see the viability of losing Essence simply from being wounded. Not when they can grow you a brand new lung, or eye, or whatever else. Not when they have nanites to stitch you back up. Honestly, I don't miss those old optional SR3 rules, any more than I miss mages risking Magic loss every time they took a serious wound. To me, those rules added grating annoyance to the game, not gritty realism.