Paratroopers in the 2070's? Options

[Nerdynick]

What would paratroopers be like in the 2070's? Would they still even use parachutes, with the availability of hydraulic jacks on cyberlegs and milspec armor? Would they use HALO jumpers and deploy them similarly to (ironically enoguh) Halo ODSTs?

Just a few questions I was curious about. Thanks.

[WyldKnight]

Nothing can really replace a paratrooper and even with cybernetics getting dropped from a plane without a parachute will only result in broken gear (and bones). I don't know about other countries but I'm pretty sure they would use HALO jumpers as...well...HALO jumpers. Not really much else to do with them and the tech isn't like ODST so they would use them like we use them today.

[Doc Chase]

There's a reason they call it terminal velocity. Hydraulics ain't gonna stop a guy from cratering if he doesn't have a chute.

[Summerstorm]

JETPACKS... i mean: come on it's the FUTURE (We should have them RIGHT NOW even.. it IS the mysticaly awesome 2010 - Robots and flying cars everywhere)

But seriously: Hydraulic jacks: NO. Jumpjets: Maybe.

Having a Military Armor and some backpack with some extendable high-pressure jets doesn't seem THAT far off. Of course they won't have that much fuel. Maybe enough for a fast descent (stopping it) and after that enough to jump a few walls, then empty.

But best bet is still a parachute (or the nightglider), of course. Much less sci-fy-y, but much less expensive and prone to failure. (Also: less awesome)

[BRodda]

What would paratroopers be like in the 2070's? Would they still even use parachutes, with the availability of hydraulic jacks on cyberlegs and milspec armor? Would they use HALO jumpers and deploy them similarly to (ironically enoguh) Halo ODSTs?

Just a few questions I was curious about. Thanks.

I'm thinking less parachutes and more gliders. More precise and you can mount more gear on it. Also the plane can skirt the territorial boundaries that way.

[Doc Chase]

Gliders and chutes are lighter than a jetpack. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[Summerstorm]

Ah well... let's make it this way:

Jumpjets
This is a high-tech drone-vehicle, which is best integrated into a military armor system. To perfectly handle it, it has to have a DNI-connection to the user. Unlike other vehicles this one does not have the usual statistics.

Follow these rules: The pack has ten (10) units of fuel. To stop a fall from terminal speed to a surviveable fall it needs to burn at least five (5) charges. The fall after that is a DV 4 fall. Every additional charge lowers that by 1.

Using the jumpjets to jump adds 5 meters to the length of the jump and 2.5 meters to the maximum height. Also it provides a +5 dice pool modifier for athletic to enhance such jumps. This costs one charge.

All benefits are cumulative with the use of hydraulic jacks and other (non-booster) enhancements to falling, jumping and flying.

Weight: 13kg Price: 20.000 NY. (Troll version costs 10.000 more and weighs 28 kg) Availibilty: 18

YAY!!!

[StealthSigma]

Would paratroopers even exist? The value of airborne paratroopers is really dependent on having battle lines between opposing armies and you can get an advantage by having a division or so of troops behind the enemy lines. If you're just trying to get troops from point A to B using an aerial lift, you're probably better off taking a helicopter unless point A and B are both airfields.

[sabs]

Starship Troopers Armor?

I admit, I envision Combat heading more towards small, highly trained, well equiped individuals. (For the Professional Armies)
And towards cheap, unaugmented masses for the warlords and the countries where the majority of the population lives in squatter life style.

[Doc Chase]

Would paratroopers even exist? The value of airborne paratroopers is really dependent on having battle lines between opposing armies and you can get an advantage by having a division or so of troops behind the enemy lines. If you're just trying to get troops from point A to B using an aerial lift, you're probably better off taking a helicopter unless point A and B are both airfields.

They have since the '50's. The first time Alamais went down was against a paratrooper unit spotting for those LEO aircraft-borne ( (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sarcastic.gif) ) lasers.

[StealthSigma]

They have since the '50's. The first time Alamais went down was against a paratrooper unit spotting for those LEO aircraft-borne ( (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sarcastic.gif) ) lasers.

Just a point of contention, but that seems to be more of an artists love affair with airborne than any reasonable usage of modern forces. That seems like a huge waste to drop an airborne regiment just to laser target an object. That really would be more of the operation of a special forces team or at worst a sniper-spotter pair since both of those elements are trained in stealth insertion.

[Doc Chase]

Just a point of contention, but that seems to be more of an artists love affair with airborne than any reasonable usage of modern forces. That seems like a huge waste to drop an airborne regiment just to laser target an object. That really would be more of the operation of a special forces team or at worst a sniper-spotter pair since both of those elements are trained in stealth insertion.

It wasn't just to target a single object - it was to shut down a terrorist organization. They just didn't realize that a dragon was running it at the time.

Rather, the protagonist didn't - but the rest of the unit did.

[Dragonscript]

There is nothing that can replace a parachute. It is cheap, light, stealthy and easy to train on its use. A better questions will be, will there even be airborne units in the 2070s? Special forces will continue to use parachutes in the future, but if regular army needed to do an airborne drop, the combined weight of armor, weapons and gear would make using a jetpack or a parachute by itself impractical. Instead you would see a combination system where a jetpack and parachute would work together to slow decent.

[StealthSigma]

There is nothing that can replace a parachute. It is cheap, light, stealthy and easy to train on its use. A better questions will be, will there even be airborne units in the 2070s? Special forces will continue to use parachutes in the future, but if regular army needed to do an airborne drop, the combined weight of armor, weapons and gear would make using a jetpack or a parachute by itself impractical. Instead you would see a combination system where a jetpack and parachute would work together to slow decent.

The US 101st Airborne has the highest count of airborne elements among airborne divisions, yet I don't think they have ran an airborne drop for quite some time (real life).

[Doc Chase]

Just because they haven't doesn't mean they won't. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

Helicopters have made air assault a wildly different beast, certainly. Parachute drops (or hangglider drops) can be a lot quieter when they're done right.

[sabs]

Paratroopers aren't just about dropping from a parachute.

it's about being trained, equipped, and mentally prepared to fight anywhere at anytime.

The 101st Airborne have light armored vehicles, Light artilerry, they can assemble a fighting force and have it on point, on the bounce quickly.

That's what being Airborne is about. Yes, they still teach parachuting and it's still important.. because it's definitely a valid, economic way to deliver a fighting force somewhere.

IN 2073, I would expect the airborne to have LAV's, to do LALO jumps, to use glider/parachutes.
And to have the ability to bring a whole world of destruction quickly, and effectively. To take and hold positions.

[Warlordtheft]

IIRC: The last major airborne operation was in Veitnam when a regiment was parachuted in.

From what I can tell (from a civillian perspective), most of the drops are porbably special forces halo drops and those are far from normal. If you can go in by helicopter, you go by that route over paratroop drops.


Even now, warlord armies are no match for a small well trained and equipped force. The problem with warlord forces is that they really are just a guy with a gun and maybe a few clips of ammo. The amount of training is minimal at best (a couple of shots at the range), support equipment (body armor, radios, comm gear, camo, weapon accesories, logistical support) and medical gear is vitually non existent. The professional soldiers on the other hand have the best gear and training that money can buy. Also, they now if they do get hurt, they will be medivaced and taken care of.

In SR, the fact of the matter is you do have vehicles that are essentially jet packs (forget the name--AFB, but it is in arsenal) . Combine that with spririts, magic, and deltagrad cyber-a small strike force of 10 (2 Mages, 2 Hackers, and 6 gun bunnies, and rigger support offsite) men (I use that term loosely) could do alot of damage.

For example, these ten men would first eliminate enemy mages, comms, and senior officers, probably via stealthy means--sniper rifles, drone attacks, spirit assaults, etc. Then (if the force doesn't scatter at that point) go to the lesser officers. Wash rinse repeat.

[StealthSigma]

Paratroopers aren't just about dropping from a parachute.

it's about being trained, equipped, and mentally prepared to fight anywhere at anytime.

The 101st Airborne have light armored vehicles, Light artilerry, they can assemble a fighting force and have it on point, on the bounce quickly.

That's what being Airborne is about. Yes, they still teach parachuting and it's still important.. because it's definitely a valid, economic way to deliver a fighting force somewhere.

IN 2073, I would expect the airborne to have LAV's, to do LALO jumps, to use glider/parachutes.
And to have the ability to bring a whole world of destruction quickly, and effectively. To take and hold positions.

Functionally, they are equipped like any other infantry division with the exception that they have the training to do airborne drops. Look through the history of the 101 and you will see many of their engagements run just in line with other infantry divisions. As far as I can tell, it's the army's attempt to emulate the marines by having theoretically quickly deployed divisions.

Realistically, I don't see the 101 doing a real airdrop unless the US Army starts slugging it without another national army that we can't just bulldoze through with the marines.

[Marcus]

The US 101st Airborne has the highest count of airborne elements among airborne divisions, yet I don't think they have ran an airborne drop for quite some time (real life).

Lets face it we won't see mass Paratroop drops unless that our only insertion option, and that is not gonna be the case baring war in some way way out hole. In general i don't see drops to be a safe concept in the 2070s, with drone doing what they do i could see mass drops being a slaughter real fast. There almost certainly a better ways to do it in 2070. I think the Air Cav, solution is more likely Mass Copter or Hover drops are way more survivable for everyone concerned.

[Kruger]

The 101st hasn't been an airborne unit since Vietnam. You guys watched too much Band of Brothers and not enough We Were Soldiers apparently. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) They became Airmobile, and eventually Air Assault and only retained the "airborne" identifier for historical reasons. They are helicopter borne. They don't conduct division level parachute drops anymore. The 82nd, along with other actual airborne elements, still conduct drop training routinely.

Last major airborne drops were conducted by the 75th Ranger regiment in Grenada, 504th in Panama, and the 75th and 173rd into Northern Iraq. The capability is still used, even though it's mostly and outdated tactic with the advent of helicopters and the nature of the modern battlefield. Airborne drops are typically more for smaller unit insertions, as opposed to divisional, regimental, or battalion sized drops. The only reason there was a Brigade level drop into Iraq was because Turkey wouldn't allow NATO forces to enter from their country.

Given the lower scale of most Shadowrun combat, insertions via tilt-rotors like the Osprey are probably much more common. The range and speed of those craft mixed with decent troop capacities would make them ideal.

[KarmaInferno]

There is nothing that can replace a parachute.

Artemis Industries Dawnglider, Arsenal pg.112

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)




-k

[Laodicea]

Given the lower scale of most Shadowrun combat, insertions via tilt-rotors like the Osprey are probably much more common. The range and speed of those craft mixed with decent troop capacities would make them ideal.

Everything you said is true as far as I know. Nice post. Just one contention. In shadowrun, the Tilt-rotor aircraft are more likely to be VTOL.

[Doc Chase]

Everything you said is true as far as I know. Nice post. Just one contention. In shadowrun, the Tilt-rotor aircraft are more likely to be VTOL.

Uh, pretty much all tilt-rotor aircraft are VTOL. That's why they tilt.

[Marcus]

Last major airborne drops were conducted by the 75th Ranger regiment in Grenada, 504th in Panama, and the 75th and 173rd into Northern Iraq. The capability is still used, even though it's mostly and outdated tactic with the advent of helicopters and the nature of the modern battlefield. Airborne drops are typically more for smaller unit insertions, as opposed to divisional, regimental, or battalion sized drops. The only reason there was a Brigade level drop into Iraq was because Turkey wouldn't allow NATO forces to enter from their country.

Learn something new everyday. I had no idea we had major drop(s) into Iraq. That's very interesting, time to go read up.

[Yerameyahu]

Power-armor jumpjets wouldn't be a drone or a vehicle. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) They'd be an armor mod, presumably on a purpose-built armor suit. As for actually using them to *jump* instead of para-drop, don't forget that you have to also land that super-jump. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)