Violent Sociopaths, Real life from TV Options

[Xirces]

Just watched an interesting TV program and thought someone might be interested.

http://www.channel4.com/science/microsites...ty/killing.html

Basically it was looking at how few people are actually capable of killing, even during war and given that it seems to be a feature of SR characters it made me wonder what that says about us...

Next week they're supposed to feature how the military actually changed the statistics and made modern soldiers more capable of killing. Without wanting to pre-empt, what does everyone think would be done over the next 60 years?

(I originally only watched the thing because a friend was featuring in the combat training segment - I actually know very few people who've had any combat training at all and only a couple who've actually been in service so my experience on this matter is minimal.)

[Siege]

I've heard similar theories regarding the US Civil War and other scenarios.

I think it has to be done, given the trend of downsizing troops. Otherwise you have a smaller body of troops, incapable of absorbing losses and proving ineffectual on the battlefield.

In terms of long-term impact on society -- I think we're already moving in that regard without a directed military program.

A number of theories have been advanced regarding the de-sensitizing of people to violence and gore through news and recreational media. Anyone remember the furor over "Doom" and other FPS? Columbine spurred interest in teen fascination with shooters like "Time Crisis" that are very close to combat trainers.

-Siege

[Austere Emancipa...]

[holychampion]

de-sensitivity.

Actual combat training in the Marines included carrying real gear that had sound generators/capacitiors called Miles-gear. Allows you to run around in real terrain and take targets much like Laser-tag. Next step IMHO should be Splat-ball, or even better since they already make real replicas of modern weaponry, 'Airsoft'.
In this fashion you would feel the impact of the hit, as well as carry the exact weaponry on a training course.

[Diesel]

MILES seems to be a little better than paintballing or Airsofting, as it is more realistic in several regards. Paintballs and airsofts both have funny flight characteristics, and sound even less real than the "blank" round that triggers the infrared laser on the MILES system.

Additionally, MILES is significantly more versatile, as it can model multiple ammunition types, and incorporate vehicles.

Regardless, all three are fun as hell.

[Backgammon]

[holychampion]

Diesel, Agreed. I was thinking that in the future (over the next 60 years), paintballing or Airsofting could be changed to address those issues that u stated. The other thing I ran into is that it wasn't always accurate, as you are trying to hit a sensor harness attached to moving person, or strap-packed onto the side of a vehicle. But I completely agree all three are outrageously fun.

[Austere Emancipa...]

Maybe in 60 years there might really be soldiers wondering why their mates aren't "respawning" after a battle.

Once simulations reach that level of realism, do you think they'd really want the training to be that realistic? Would they put all the blood and gore in there, or would the official army simulations still be rather sterile?

[Rev]

Heh, like Enders Game but right down to the footsoldiers. They might all be expecting to be yelled at by thier commander for screwing up when, in fact, they really are dying this time. :)

[Siege]

[Frag-o Delux]

What is the system the FBI and such use? It uses real rounds, but instead of lead it is a paint pellet. They have all kinds of weapons that use it and they are standard weapons. The same MP5 used in a raid the week before is now being used in a training Hogans Alley. They sound real as hell and hit like a truck, just non-lethal. The police services using it have said the gun acts in the same way as if it was a lead round.

[mfb]

the main thing the military's done is focus on treating soldiers after they experience combat--watching for signs of PTSS, reacting correctly when it shows up, offering counselling, etcetera. the base 'problem' is that, psychologically, humans are not built for killing each other. the only real way to make a human feel okay about killing other humans is to make him believe at some level that the people he's killing aren't real--they're just differently-shaped targets to be knocked down. the problem, of course, is that it can eventually become difficult to hold that dichtotomy in mind; at some point, the soldier begins to realize that there's no real difference between an enemy soldier and the mailman. alternatively, or concurrently, the stress of holding that dichtotomy together might cause the soldier's mind to break down in myriad other ways.

so, yes, the military might have effective ways of turning people into killing machines, by 2060--likely, there are effective ways to do it now. the problem is turning that switch off, when it's time to go home.

[Diesel]

http://blackjack.dumpshock.com/stuff/WEAP6.htm

Scroll down to the bottom, "Thrill Kill Link".

Speaks for itself, I'd say.

[Siege]

That's an interesting idea -- it's difficult to condition someone to "kill acceptable targets only" as opposed to "kill indifferently" or perhaps "kill indiscriminately."

I wonder if that's relatively recent phenomenon versus the default human condition.

-Siege

[kevyn668]

"Soldiers are given inhuman orders everyday. That's why there are soldiers."

Show your SR knowledge: tell me which novel that line is from. Extra NERPS if you can tell me who said it.

[Kagetenshi]

[Siege]

[Kagetenshi]

Meh. We could do with less people anyway. Especially the people who play the GTA series.

~J

[Tziluthi]

[kevyn668]

Despite what you see on the tube, killing a bloke isn't that easy. I don't have first hand experience but I've talked to a few that have. They all said the cliche bit about the first one being the hardest and then it gets easier. But I don't know if thats bluster or not.

Either way, I think you have to believe that you had no choice. "him or me." That sort of thing. I dunno. Not really qualified for that sort of debate, I guess.

[Frag-o Delux]

[Zazen]

[Kagetenshi]

[Austere Emancipa...]

[Frag-o Delux]