Cheating Options

[Socinus]

I'm currently playing a D&D game with a group of friends. One person in particular has been having anomalously good rolls ALL THE TIME and has NEVER rolled a 1, ever.

Last session, I kept an eye on him and I saw him actively cheating. He'd arrange the dice he needed to roll so the numbers would be high, then roll some other random dice and read off the results from the first set. He did this several times.

The problem is this guy IS a friend, even if he's cheating, and the amount of static it would cause to bring it up would be pretty epic. . I've consulted the GM and she's NOT happy.

I'm looking for input and suggestions as to how to deal with a player who is cheating AND a friend. I want to bust him, but that will create A LOT of static within the group.

[Pollux710]

Talk to him man, on the side, dont make it public that'll just raise the bar on the epic explosion. Seriously though, talk to the guy, or he'll cheat and cheat and cheat and eventually the fun factor will wear down on all involved.

[Yerameyahu]

Not that it really matters. You're just playing against the plot; if no one ever noticed, they wouldn't care.

[KarmaInferno]

Well, a fast way of stopping it without pointing fingers is to have all rolls be made in a central rolling area, where everyone can see the die results clearly. Have the GM state that she's not going to name anyone but she has some concerns. Make it clear that someone might have been cheating, but this is an attempt to let whoever it is save face without the public embarrassment.

If the guy keeps trying to pull crap after that, the GM should immediately speak to him privately to cut it out.

Third strike really should be kicking the guy out. At that point it's just clear disrespect for the rest of the group. If he were really a friend he wouldn't be putting ya'll in that situation, and any resulting fallout from this is HIS own fault, not yours.




-k

[Yerameyahu]

Well, definitely don't do the kindergarten 'maybe someone unnamed was cheating' thing. If you're going to confront the issue, confront it. The normal response to this is throwing cheese doodles, but whatever fits your group. OP said it's a group of friends, not a convention game or something.

[KarmaInferno]

I have been accused of being overly diplomatic on occasion.




-k

[Yerameyahu]

Hehe, maybe, but that's not what I meant. It's not that it's too lenient, it's that it's insulting and passive-aggressive. Obviously, someone was cheating, or they wouldn't say anything; and now everyone will be curious and/or upset (if they're whiners). It'll only make the situation worse.

[Socinus]

Not that it really matters. You're just playing against the plot; if no one ever noticed, they wouldn't care.

The problem is he uses these loaded rolls to do things that break the plot and he does things that get the rest of the group in trouble.

Normally, the problem would take care of itself. But he's starting to fracture the plot and our GM is having to work harder and harder to keep things in order

[Yerameyahu]

Okay, yes, if he's messing with the plot. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Absolutely. Although, he could always do those anyway; sounds like a basic Wheaton's Law violator, cheater or not.

[Voran]

Understandably a player feels a connection to their character, and wants them to survive/succeed. Most of us have probably 'misread' a die roll or two in our days, but when it becomes chronic, it does become a problem. That being said, tabletop gaming is also about community and trust, generally GMs will allow stuff like players rolling their own dice over on their own side of the table because the idea is that everyone is being more or less honest. In order to crack down on such behavior, countermeasures can be put into place, but serve to annoy EVERYONE cause they slow stuff down.

For example:

A. Congrats, now you get to use a cup when you roll your dice (dice or die in cup, cover, shake, roll) in a central location where everyone can see.
-why's it a pain? Especially stuff like 4th ed dnd almost requires a tabletop map with counters and icons and crap, usually there isn't much room in the middle anymore, so finding a location can be rough.

B. Player now has assigned seating right next to GM where the gm can directly see dice results.
-why's it a pain? Unless you're an idiot you're going to notice the change, and sitting directly next to the gm this way is kinda like having the 'slow child' seat right next to the teacher.

Simply talking to the player may have the desired effect, but not a certainty.

It does sorta sound like the player has attention-ho issues. He isn't playing chaotic-douchebag...i mean chaotic-neutral...is he?

The long term problem is as you mentioned, when combined with outrageous actions and convenient success rolls, it does become possible to force outcomes that are highly unlikely, the comedy of errors that would allow some homeless dude wearing 10 meter Body Odor emitting clothing, off the street to hop the White House fence, bypass all the security measures and sit in the Presidents oval office chair. Cause he rolled 15 rolls of 18 or higher. 12 of which were natural 20s.

On the other hand, such blatant behavior can lead to GM's becoming rather vicious, spoofing their own rolls with bias against said player.

One way over the years I've noticed that sometimes works to keep the 'high rollers' on their toes, is to randomly ask them to roll a die (d20, whatever) but not tell them what its for. Then the guy has to wonder, "Am I rolling for something hitting me?" Am I rolling for something I'm supposed to be percieving? etc etc. So they don't know if a high roll is better than a low roll. Also works if the GM keeps their own side note, writing down the 'random' roll for later, "Oh yeah, all those high rolls you gave me? Those are the attack rolls for the surprise round against you guys"

[Dumori]

Most of us have probably 'misread' a die roll or two in our days, but when it becomes chronic, it does become a problem.

I think the closest I've got to that was mixing my d12s and d20s up. Only noticed when I rolled over 12 when I shouldn't have been able to. It explained my dismal roles that month too. Felt soooo stupid after that.

[Nychuus]

I say: roll for the dude and don't let any dice near his area. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[Karoline]

I think the closest I've got to that was mixing my d12s and d20s up. Only noticed when I rolled over 12 when I shouldn't have been able to. It explained my dismal roles that month too. Felt soooo stupid after that.

Hehe, I had a similar thing. I have a d10 that looks like a d20, and have used it a few times by mistake.

My favorite was one time in D&D my GM didn't believe that my mage had such high HP (High con and decent rolls on the d4), and so asked me to reroll my 6+ levels hp dice in front of him. I proceeded to roll almost strait 4s with a single 3. My hp jumped up by several points after that (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) I always roll well with d4s for some reason.

As for the OP, I suggest the GM taking the person aside and flat out telling them "I've noticed you cheating, if you don't cut it out, I'm going to drop the bomb on you." Or if the GM wants to be a bit more diplomatic "I've noticed something that looked like you might be cheating, could you roll your dice more openly so that I can be sure of the results?"

It generally isn't a fun conversation, because the person will inevitably be offended that whoever is accusing them of cheating, regardless of if they actually are or not, but it is generally the best way. In the past, my group relied on a combination of the honor system, and the fact that the people on either side of you looked at your dice and would call you on it if you cheated. If you're sitting next to the person, be sure to watch their die rolls carefully, and when they pull that, simply call them on it. Perhaps try and pass it off as a mistake the first time "No dude, you rolled that die over there, not this one here." so they can save face and stop.

And the 'group change' thing may seem a bit kindergarten, it is also very effective. "I strongly believe someone has been cheating, and a player has confirmed my suspicions. I'm not going to say who, in case they really weren't, but to prevent it, we're going to (roll our dice openly/keep all non-rolling dice off the table/keep all non-rolling dice in a pile so as to be easily separated/whatever other solution/have someone else confirm the roll)" That way the cheater can save face, and the person who confirmed it isn't on bad terms with the cheater. Of course the GM could leave out the player confirmed part, but it is nice to have that extra 'It isn't just me being mean' factor.

[Mr. Mage]

I was playing a game of DnD and one of my friends sitting next to me was constantly cheating by pretending anything under a 5 on his d20 was a 20. As I said...I was sitting next to him... so I smacked him upside the head and he spit crackers all over the table. I do not suggest this being the way you handle the situation. It's just an anecdote.

That being said, I have rarely had much trouble with cheating but when I have (and its usually the same person) I tend to confront them right then and there. I make sure they actually cheated though, because if they weren't then I'm made to be the bad guy. But if I catch them and confront them right there, I tend to find that the embarrassment of being caught makes them stop doing it. For a while at least. I don't know you're friends will react to this, but my group tends to forget such infractions after a few games and just continue playing.

[Yerameyahu]

I vote for cracker-spitting in a game of friends.

[crash2029]

I used to cheat when playing D&D. I learned to play it with my father who had no idea of scale. I still remember the time two 5th level characters ran into a purple worm. Or the time my first level character ran into a vampire. Cheating in his game became a matter of survival. In one campaign he ran, even though I cheated, even with repeated raise dead/reincarnation spells, I still lost three different characters. When I started playing other games with other gamemasters it took me awhile to get used to playing normally. But I did. And now when I have a character perform an action I sometimes ask the GM to raise the threshold or add penalties to make the action cooler. And when I make it it's awesome. And when I fail I get The Looks from the other players. But I haven't cheated in a long time.

[capt.pantsless]

I've consulted the GM and she's NOT happy.

Whatever you do, defer to the GM's preference. If its her game, she calls the shots.

[Yerameyahu]

Well… not necessarily. If the GM wants to ignore the cheating and you *don't*, then it's not her call. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[toturi]

The problem is this guy IS a friend, even if he's cheating, and the amount of static it would cause to bring it up would be pretty epic. . I've consulted the GM and she's NOT happy.

Why is she not happy?

Is she not happy about the person cheating? Is she not happy that you found out about the person cheating and she did not notice? Is she not happy because she was ignoring it but you found out and so she has to show that she isn't happy about something?

[Karoline]

From the overall post, I gathered 'not happy that the person is cheating'.

[Yerameyahu]

Um, the plot thickens?

[Nychuus]

You could always adopt the "If I didn't see the result of that roll, it never happened" rule.

[Sesix]

Well if he is a really good friend I opt for the smack upside the head thing, if not then at least talk to him

When I read this I thought man, I loved it when I failed rolls in DnD. It made things more interesting, and the story more memorable. "Hey remember that time you tried to bluff the guards about all that jewelry you stole and was wearing while dopleganered as the wrong guy to be wearing said jewelry?" Yeah my rogue could steal anything, just couldn't talk his way out of a paper bag.

[Doc Chase]

Throw 'em in a gladiator pit to be the headliner after his consistent successes make him stand out amongst the crowd.

He bleeds for the rest of the party's freedom. Moral? Sometimes the only way to win is to lose. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Voran]

I had a memorable failure in one of my 4th ed games. Luckily non-combat, but hilarious at the table.

I was playing a warlock, with a rather insane Charisma rating for 7th level, easily fitting the role of the party's face. I was making a persuasion check vs a npc we needed info from, I had supporting documents for my inquiry, and for giggles I did the rare thing and actually rp'd out what I was going to say.

Then I rolled a 1.

Shock across the table. We came to the decision that somehow, despite all my efforts, good nature, high charisma and such, in some ways the word LIAR flashed across my forehead or something while I was talking to the npc. Maybe cause I was a tiefling.