Adrenaline Pump Revelation, Yes, again. Options

[Mesh]

I know the adrenaline pump has been argued here many times, but has anyone ever thought of adding a Pain Editor?

Adrenaline pump (Rating 3) inflicts 3d6 Stun on its user, but pain editors allow their users to ignore all Stun damage modifiers and to stay conscious even when their stun track is full. That seems to make adrenaline pumps seem viable when used in conjunction with a pain editor.

Mesh

[Thanee]

Not really... You often get Stun Damage in combat. It's pretty much the same problem.

And yes, it has been brought up in the last thread about it, I think. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

IMHO:
The AP is only (somewhat) viable, when you can resist the damage (i.e. with BOD+WIL).
It would only be really viable, when it would allow you to exceed the racial attribute max.

Bye
Thanee

[Mongoose]

Or if it had different effects entirely. Because really, it was created for Sr1 rules, where it was pretty powerful (though still not great, and the stun was still crippling).

For example, + rating Edge would be pretty cool, even if that Edge had the limitation that you could only spend it to act first in an IP.

[Whipstitch]

The opportunity cost is absolutely outrageous and even worse those pieces of 'ware are somewhat redundant. Part of the reason for taking an adrenaline pump is that it might keep you on your feet long enough to play MAD with your opponents and maybe be saved by your friends rather than captured or killed. Really, the only hypothetical scenario I can think of where it'd be nice to have an Adrenaline Pump plus a Pain Editor would be some weird situation where you're taken from conscious to overflow stun while the Editor was inactive but the pump kicks in due to the damage and gives you a chance to do whatever it is you do to activate the Editor. Problem is, there isn't much in the way of Pain Editor rules to dictate when/how/if such a situation could ever really come up. And even then, the Stun damage from the pump would still be too high a price to pay in most any other situation given that the thing is a bit unpredictable. In the end if I had to pick some dubious high essence cost 'ware to pair with an Editor, I'd rather have a couple of cyberlimbs than a Rating 3 pump. The extra armor, condition boxes and sensory cutoff can help make sure that most of the damage you take is Stun as well as give you a couple extra tools to manage once you've been shot up enough to start taking physical. I kinda assume you guys already know this though and are just trying to spruce up a lost cause. Good luck with that one-- I've managed to make Spell Knack useful before but even I wouldn't touch a Pump.

[Saint Sithney]

.75 essence and 30,000¥ per grade.

Already a bad idea.

For that price, you could get the same bonuses from other ware and have them on all the time.

[Glyph]

It doesn't really make a lot of sense as expensive 'ware. It should be incredibly cheap 'ware, instead, the kind that lowlife street punks who can't afford a decent, permanent boost will get.

[Whipstitch]

Agreed. The cost and availability is just all out of whack. Anyone with legitimate resources wouldn't want 'em and the lowlifes can't afford 'em. By contrast, you won't see one of my 'runners with second-hand Muscle Replacements, but for a ganger the savings would be a huge draw. Even Rating 3 Muscle Replacements are under 10k nuyen used. Runners at my table have been hassled by some surprisingly beefy up and coming gangers before.

[KarmaInferno]

I always like giving the Gremlins quality to NPCs with secondhand 'ware.

Like that guy with the used Muscle Replacement having bad acne and lesions because he keeps forgetting to use the anti-rejection drugs.

Or someone with used Wired Reflexes having spastic twitches and occasionally getting nerve-shocked.




-k

[Jaid]

I always like giving the Gremlins quality to NPCs with secondhand 'ware.

Like that guy with the used Muscle Replacement having bad acne and lesions because he keeps forgetting to use the anti-rejection drugs.

Or someone with used Wired Reflexes having spastic twitches and occasionally getting nerve-shocked.




-k

ironically, the gremlins quality doesn't affect 'ware (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[Mäx]

Adrenaline pump (Rating 3) inflicts 3d6 Stun on its user, but pain editors allow their users to ignore all Stun damage modifiers and to stay conscious even when their stun track is full. That seems to make adrenaline pumps seem viable when used in conjunction with a pain editor.

Problem isn't falling unconscious, the problem is that your very likely to drop dead from stun damage inflicted by the pump, in addition to what ever stun you took while it was active, overfloving to physical damage.
So no pain editor doesn't make adrenaline pumps anymore viable.

[Whipstitch]

Buggy 'Ware operates in much the same manner, although it maybe a bit better depending on your role and what implants you take.

[Neraph]

I've been kicking around the idea of a heavily cybered-out NPC that has things like Mystery Mod Noise, High Maintenance Implant, Buggy 'Ware, and a few others. It'd be a sort of comical relief, but could also be easily portrayed as the downside to too much chrome.

[sabs]

remember the stun track is 8+(willpower/2) so most people have a 9 or 10 stun track
their damage track is 8+(body/2) so again most people have a 9 or 10 physical track

That means that taking 18 stun damage will /kill/ you if you've taken more than 3 stun during the fight that activated your adrenaline pump.

[Neraph]

remember the stun track is 8+(willpower/2) so most people have a 9 or 10 stun track
their damage track is 8+(body/2) so again most people have a 9 or 10 physical track

That means that taking 18 stun damage will /kill/ you if you've taken more than 3 stun during the fight that activated your adrenaline pump.

Actually it'll just put them into Overflow. They're not quite dead yet.

EDIT: Assuming a Body of 3 or 4, they have 2 or 3 points (respectively) of Overflow left. They're all but dead.

[sabs]

No death occurs if they've taken 7+ stun during the fight (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Draco18s]

Actually it'll just put them into Overflow. They're not quite dead yet.

4 Bod, 4 Wil -> 10, 10 tracks, 4 overflow

Total 24.

24 boxes minus 18 stun = 4.

If the user has 4 damage on any track when the pump inflicts its 18 stun, it does just kill you:

That means that taking 18 stun damage will /kill/ you if you've taken more than 3 stun during the fight that activated your adrenaline pump.

[Mäx]

4 Bod, 4 Wil -> 10, 10 tracks, 4 overflow

Total 24.

24 boxes minus 18 stun = 6.

If the user has 6 damage on any track when the pump inflicts its 18 stun, it does just kill you:

Fixed that for you

[Draco18s]

Fixed that for you

Derp. Math. I used to be good at it. And then I graduated college.
(You'll find I've fucked up basic addition/subtraction on these boards A LOT)

[Neraph]

Ok, for a second there I was with Draco. Then my math came back and I was like "no, I think I had that right." Then Max to the rescue of my sanity.

[Karoline]

So, the adjustment seems simple. Drop them to 7500 nuyen per rating and leave them in the realm of gangers and suicidal people.

[Draco18s]

Ok, for a second there I was with Draco. Then my math came back and I was like "no, I think I had that right." Then Max to the rescue of my sanity.

Although if we drop this hypothetical character's stats to 3 and 3 (or do we need 2 and 2?):

9, 9 boxes, 3 overflow.

21 max

21 - 18 damage = 3

So he was right, but only on the low end of his math.

[Mesh]

The average roll of 3d6 is 10.5.

Mesh

[Brazilian_Shinob...]

So, the adjustment seems simple. Drop them to 7500 nuyen per rating and leave them in the realm of gangers and suicidal people.

Why the redundancy? Gangers ARE suicidal people.

[sabs]

Why the redundancy? Gangers ARE suicidal people.

But not all suicidal people are gangers

[Neraph]

Although if we drop this hypothetical character's stats to 3 and 3 (or do we need 2 and 2?):

9, 9 boxes, 3 overflow.

21 max

21 - 18 damage = 3

So he was right, but only on the low end of his math.

Physical and Stun tracks are rounded up, so it'd have to be 2's. And a "normal character" like the one postulated would be 3's.

But otherwise yeah, a slightly-less-than-average character would die if he has 3 points of damage anywhere and gets nailed for 18 Stun.