Question about the Prejudiced quality Options

[Garvel]

Would it be ok, to take "Prejudiced against Humanis Policlub" as a quality for a character? I mean, are you really prejudiced, if you are prejudiced against people because they are prejudiced?
Especially if the character is a metahuman himself, is it really that big news, that he is biased against people that hate him for what he is?
Would you allow it as a GM?
Maybe the bonus BP the quality gives should be reduced by 5 in this case, so that you have to be at least Outspoken to get BP.

[jaellot]

If you took the notion that any human could be a member so they should be at least suspected I'd allow it (along with what ever negative pool mods it woild make for social interactions with said humans). Otherwise it sounds like a quick handful of extra BP's. I mean, Humanis is one of the actual few bad guys of the game.

[KarmaInferno]

"If it doesn't have an actual negative effect on the character, it shouldn't be worth any BP."

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)



-k

[BRodda]

Would it be ok, to take "Prejudiced against Humanis Policlub" as a quality for a character? I mean, are you really prejudiced, if you are prejudiced against people because they are prejudiced?
Especially if the character is a metahuman himself, is it really that big news, that he is biased against people that hate him for what he is?
Would you allow it as a GM?
Maybe the bonus BP the quality gives should be reduced by 5 in this case, so that you have to be at least Outspoken to get BP.

I would say no. You can only be prejudiced against races, creeds, religions and sexual orientation. Those are the things that are not likely to change over time. If they wanted to take it against bigots I would probably allow that. Its more broad and more likely to come into play.

[Karoline]

Isn't humanis club similar to a creed/religion? I don't see how 'prejudice against humanis members' is different than 'prejudice against jews'. The main difference being that most people play as being prejudice against humanis club regardless of actual qualities. Of course, you could put it as levels above this normal level of hatred. I think most metas are going to be naturally the first level or two against humanis, so additional levels above that can be taken, quickly taking you into "Actively hunt down humanis members"

[Garvel]

I would say no. You can only be prejudiced against races, creeds, religions and sexual orientation. Those are the things that are not likely to change over time. If they wanted to take it against bigots I would probably allow that. Its more broad and more likely to come into play.

The examples in the description of the quality are among other things "lawyers" and "artists". Those are not separate races, creeds, religions or sexual orientations.

[KarmaInferno]

I do agree it should be at minimum taken at Outspoken to get any BP.

As I said, it has to have a negative effect. If the character is essentially the same with or without the negative quality, then no BP.

Most metahumans are going to be naturally prejudiced against Humanis, and a good amount of regular humans are probably going to be prejudiced against Humanis too. In order t be an actual negative quality, the character needs to be visibly prejudiced above and beyond the norm.

Being hypersensitive and prone to fly off the handle getting into angry arguments at the slightest even PERCEIVED anti-metahuman talk would qualify.

Also, since it's about a guy hypersensitive to discrimination against "his people"...




-k

[BRodda]

The examples in the description of the quality are among other things "lawyers" and "artists". Those are not separate races, creeds, religions or sexual orientations.

Personally I don't like the "professions" allowed in the text. However I will say that profession should be added to my list.

[Garvel]

If it doesn't have an actual negative effect on the character, it shouldn't be worth any BP."

smile.gif

If you are strikt with this statement, you can't even allow the Drone Rigger Example Character from the basic book. He has a Moderate Allergy to Gold for +10 BP. How likely is it that this will ever have an actual negative effect on the Character, without the GM extremely metagaming?
(King: "As a reward for saving the princess, you shall be deluged with gold and silver!"
PC: "Oh, NOOO!") (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

While this attitude is also ok, I see qualities slightly different:
If a negative quality gives a character more style, deepness or credibility, its ok that the player gets a few BP for it.
For example Prejudiced(Biased) doesn't do much, no matter what group it is against, because you dont have to show it. But it fits into the dystopian setting and is an opportunity for roleplaying.
The main purpose of negative qualities is not to disable the character, but to give him more deepness and details that differentiate him from other characters.
Many fictional characters from movies or novels have also weaknesses, but obviously weren't created by the autors with a BP system.
But in a Roleplaying game, most players wont give their characters weaknesses unless they get something in return.

[Doc Chase]

Which is fine, but most everyone already has a prejudice against Humanis. It stinks of trying to get something for nothing. At least with a gold allergy that rigger's going to have an issue with some electronics.

A troll has a prejudice against Humanis? Welcome to the UCAS, population: every metahuman ever.

[Brazilian_Shinob...]

"There's only two things I hate in this world. People who are intolerant of other people's cultures and the Dutch"
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

[Garvel]

Which is fine, but most everyone already has a prejudice against Humanis. It stinks of trying to get something for nothing.

Ok, seems that most posters agree with me that everyone should already have "Prejudiced against Humanis Policlub (Biased)", but you can get a higher degree and get the difference as points. For example get "Prejudiced against Humanis Policlub (Outspoken)" for 5 points.

At least with a gold allergy that rigger's going to have an issue with some electronics.

He could use his tools to touch the electronics, or the gloves from his medkit. Still not a real disadvantage for 10 BP.
The Covert Ops Specialist has a gold allergy too by the way.

[Doc Chase]

Ok, seems that most posters agree with me that everyone should already have "Prejudiced against Humanis Policlub (Biased)", but you can get a higher degree and get the difference as points. For example get "Prejudiced against Humanis Policlub (Outspoken)" for 5 points.

Which is fine. If you've got a guy who's talking crap about Humanis while they're in earshot and doesn't stop, then that's going to make a bad day for somebody(and entertainment for me). If it's just 'oh, he doesn't like Humanis' well, congratulations. Not a lot of folks do.

He could use his tools to touch the electronics, or the gloves from his medkit. Still not a real disadvantage for 10 BP.
The Covert Ops Specialist has a gold allergy too by the way.

Doesn't work as well when they're implanted, as some electronics are. Can't look good in gold jewelry which can confer social penalties in the right circles. Won't make it far in the Azzie priesthood, etc. Can't handle orichalcum. The allergy quality distribution is somewhat borked since it's a rare metal allergy (5 points) and only offers mild, almost negligible discomfort (5 points), but the disadvantage is still there and still in ze mechanix.

[Karoline]

Doesn't work as well when they're implanted, as some electronics are. Can't look good in gold jewelry which can confer social penalties in the right circles. Won't make it far in the Azzie priesthood, etc. Can't handle orichalcum. The allergy quality distribution is somewhat borked since it's a rare metal allergy (5 points) and only offers mild, almost negligible discomfort (5 points), but the disadvantage is still there and still in ze mechanix.

That's what fake gold is for, or platinum leaf, and any part of the electronics that is gold isn't going to actually be touching you even when implanted, it would have to be insulated (Not that anything uses gold any more, it's all fiber optics according to the books).

And why couldn't you handle orichalcum? Just because it is made from gold doesn't mean it would trigger a gold allergy. Salt is made from sodium (explodes on contact with water) and chlorine (poisonous gas) and yet salt doesn't kill you (At least not so directly (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif) )

[Doc Chase]

That's what fake gold is for, or platinum leaf, and any part of the electronics that is gold isn't going to actually be touching you even when implanted, it would have to be insulated (Not that anything uses gold any more, it's all fiber optics according to the books).

And why couldn't you handle orichalcum? Just because it is made from gold doesn't mean it would trigger a gold allergy. Salt is made from sodium (explodes on contact with water) and chlorine (poisonous gas) and yet salt doesn't kill you (At least not so directly (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif) )

Wearing costume jewelry to a social function where they're looking for the real thing. 'Kay. Let me know how that goes.

Sodium and chlorine, while poentially deadly, counterbalance one another naturally(I.E. does not require magical intervention). One also isn't allergic to them. The gold content of orichalcum is magically bonded (or in the case of naturally-occuring orichalcum, assisted by a rise in the ambient mana). One can also be allergic to it, rare as it might be (and thereby earning the cheap BP assigned to it).

Look, if you want to try and draw correlation in order to justify harvesting BP for a dislike of folks that the writers created in order to be disliked - okay, fine, go crazy. Trying to liken it to an allergy to gold is...honestly not worth the time to talk about it.

[Karoline]

I'm the one who suggested allowing it buy only at higher levels to show how much above the normal prejudice you are, so I'm not arguing that you should be able to take biased for humanis and be okay.

And no, you aren't allergic to sodium or chlorine, they just have the ability to kill you. And magic or not has nothing to do with it. Just because something is made from X, does not mean that someone allergic to X is allergic to the thing made from X.

And platinum is hardly costume jewelry. Good luck spotting platinum leaf without very close inspection. And if it is really a problem, wear silver and expensive jewels instead.

[Doc Chase]

I'm the one who suggested allowing it buy only at higher levels to show how much above the normal prejudice you are, so I'm not arguing that you should be able to take biased for humanis and be okay.

I'm not arguing that. I'm supporting that. I'm all for that. It's why I'm trying to differentiate between the 'we don't like Humanis' and the 'fuck Humanis, Imma go smash a purple-hooded skull in over on Sixth.' All for it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

I just don't want to see someone say 'I don't like Humanis, gimme 5 BP'. A 5 pointer for Humanis doesn't exist. Go big or don't go, I say.

And no, you aren't allergic to sodium or chlorine, they just have the ability to kill you. And magic or not has nothing to do with it. Just because something is made from X, does not mean that someone allergic to X is allergic to the thing made from X.

You realize you just argued that someone with an allergy to peanuts is fine eating something made from peanuts, right?

And platinum is hardly costume jewelry. Good luck spotting platinum leaf without very close inspection. And if it is really a problem, wear silver and expensive jewels instead.

Fake gold is costume jewelry. You want to go platinum, be my guest. The stuff's fantastic, but gold's still cheaper. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[BRodda]

If you are strikt with this statement, you can't even allow the Drone Rigger Example Character from the basic book. He has a Moderate Allergy to Gold for +10 BP. How likely is it that this will ever have an actual negative effect on the Character, without the GM extremely metagaming?

I would say it is the DUTY of the GM to offer opportunities to Players to highlight their strengths and their flaws.

If you want to take that flaw I have the obligation to create someone like "Goldfinger" or "Midas" to make the flaw worth the points.

[Yerameyahu]

You're adding wrong, anyway. It's 2 for Uncommon, 8 for Moderate (not 5 and 5). (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

That's just how the rules work. Uncommon should show up sometimes, and can be deliberately used against them.

[Doc Chase]

You're adding wrong, anyway. It's 2 for Uncommon, 8 for Moderate (not 5 and 5). (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

That's just how the rules work. Uncommon should show up sometimes, and can be deliberately used against them.

Meh. I'm going off faulty memory, but it added to 10 eventually. Four words and a hyphen:

Molten Gold Death-Trap.

[Yerameyahu]

Isn't everyone 'allergic' to molten gold? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Mäx]

Molten Gold Death-Trap.

Becouse the fact that you have moderate allergy to gold is your biggest problem at that point,right. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

[Yerameyahu]

Well, you will be at a -4!

[Doc Chase]

-4 is nothing to sneeze at in Molten Gold Death Trap. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)

[Yerameyahu]

Sneezing itself would probably be very difficulty, but also dangerous to bystanders.