Touch Spell Magician VS Adept Options

[lowendz113]

So I've was looking into making an adept when I realized that they really aren't all that grand. I mean don't get me wrong, they are BAs but they don't have a lot of options and most of the initiation powers help out magicians way more than them.

This got me thinking that you could have a hand-to-hand magician that used touch spells for attacks and you would accomplish a simliar feeling. You can compensate for sustaining modifiers (to some extent) with Increase [Attribute], Get 4 IPs with Increase Reflexes, and heal yourself when stuff goes bad. And more importantly than that, you can counterspell.

I know the magician has to resist drain, but the touch drain really isn't bad. For example Death Touch (F/2) + 2. A force 6, which is packing some serious hurt, only has a 5 drain. Any magician worth his aura can soak most, if not all of that.

Furthermore, to cast a touch spell, all you need to do is touch the defender. This means that a tie results in a hit.

So on top of all of that, the magician also has access to every other spell in the book, and can specialize as needed for maximum butt kicking.

I know there are some drawbacks, but the flexibility it provides a character, IMHO, outweighs them.

[Summerstorm]

The REALLY funny touchspells are the negative health spells.

Have a mage run around with an assorted set of those is funny:

Decrease Body, Decrease Willpower, Decrease Logic...

Hit the Troll-cybered-berserker with a decrease charisma spell... two hits and he is down, do not worry about pain-editor or abnormal amount of hitboxes. Magical Pixie a problem? Decrease Body... two net hits and she is "sleeping" for a while.

(And by "sleeping" i mean: Having trouble keeping those little heart beating.)

If done right it is much fun. But yeah, you can duplicate most adept powers with magical effects. But of course you need some sustaining foci to keep you at that level. And you need to know a lot of utility/buff spells.

But running around with an elemental aura, magic armor, improved reflexes, combat sense, enhanced attributes (reaction and agility) and touch spells should have you on the level of an "standard" melee adept.

[Ramorta]

The REALLY funny touchspells are the negative health spells.

Have a mage run around with an assorted set of those is funny:

Decrease Body, Decrease Willpower, Decrease Logic...

So, basicly a nerve strike adept? Reduce reaction or agility to 0 for paralysis?

[Neraph]

Hit the Troll-cybered-berserker with a decrease charisma spell... two hits and he is down, do not worry about pain-editor or abnormal amount of hitboxes. Magical Pixie a problem? Decrease Body... two net hits and she is "sleeping" for a while.

Now is there some place in the rules that states that when an attribute reaches 0 something happens? I know there's a section on it in the Nerve Strike rules, but that is specific to Nerve Strike. Is there a general rule that states it?

Also, instead of touch spells, try an Elemental Aura. Cast once, sustain it, and go to town.

And lastly, you can easily play a DBZ styled game by using Mystic Adepts that are Inhabited by free spirits. Levitate, Movement, some Unarmed Combat, and Elemental Aura, combined with Immunity (Normal Weapons) makes just about every character in DBZ.

[sabs]

A Dim Mak Master..

That's actually really cute.

[Garvel]

While your mage concept is playable, it isn't really better than an adept.

Indeed there are few metamagic techniques that are really good for adepts. Thats why imho most people use the optional rule, that allows adepts to take an additional Power Point instead of a technique. Indeed I got the impression that it is one of the most used optional rules in the game. Is anybody here who knows that this optional rule exists, but refuses to use it?

Counterspelling and healing is good, but only if you dont have an other mage in the team. If you allready have a mage it's reduntant.

And if you rely on substained spells, you will have many weaknesses, that the adapt doesnt have. For example background count will affect you much stronger than a normal adept, and you cant go though astral barriers.

Adeps are good at what they do. They belong to the best characters in shadowrun. Trust me, they aren't to weak, if they are build properly. Especially their improved skill power is something, a mage wont get.

Mages belong to the best characters in shadowrun too. But a mage that relies only on touchspells will be simply weaker than a mage that uses stunbolt and stun ball in many occasions.

[Summerstorm]

Now is there some place in the rules that states that when an attribute reaches 0 something happens? I know there's a section on it in the Nerve Strike rules, but that is specific to Nerve Strike. Is there a general rule that states it?

Also, instead of touch spells, try an Elemental Aura. Cast once, sustain it, and go to town.

And lastly, you can easily play a DBZ styled game by using Mystic Adepts that are Inhabited by free spirits. Levitate, Movement, some Unarmed Combat, and Elemental Aura, combined with Immunity (Normal Weapons) makes just about every character in DBZ.

Ah yes... no "general rule" but the description of what happens is in the spell description itself:

SR20A, Page 207:

"If a Physical Attribute is reduced to 0, the target is paralyzed or incapacitated. If a Mental Attribute is reduced to 0, the target stand about mindlessly confused."

And the funny thing: Health spells are resisted with the attribute they target. If you guess right it is insultingly easy to take ANYBODY down. Most people have a weakness or two.

Also: a mage can get extra dice like a adept too. Maybe not enhances skills per se. But with combat sense (the spell) or Targetfinder (is it called that?) You can get a lot +++. But why make it so hard... Just be a mystic adept. and do whatever you want *g* (except astral travel).

[Karoline]

So.... you want to make a Mystic Adept is what I hear you saying.

[Shinobi Killfist]

Yeah, sounds like a mystic adept to me.

Oh and death touch is F/2-2 not +_2 so force 6 is Drain 1(7 force would be 1 drain as well). I usually shoot for odd forces since you round down, so Force 9 is a whopping 2 drain. I think that satisfies the one hit kills you'd get with drain attribute spells. Stun touch is F/2-3 do force 9 is 1 drain force 11 is 2 drain.

[Glyph]

Mages with touch spells can be effective, but their main drawback is that they need to succeed at two tests in order to succeed. And while -2 drain code is nice, generally they are far more effective casting mana bolt at line of sight, than casting death touch up close and personal. The main advantage for such mages is being able to overcast pretty much at will, for potential one-shot takedowns with every hit.

The decrease attribute spells have never seemed that effective to me, though. Their drain is high enough that you might as well cast stunbolt instead, and also, they are sustained spells. If you want that troll standing around mindlessly, you need to keep sustaining that spell. I would rather just drop him with the aforementioned stunbolt and not have to worry about him.

[Yerameyahu]

A lot of spells don't make sense for their effect/drain. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif)

[Neraph]

(except astral travel)

That's what Shade is for.

A lot of spells don't make sense for their effect/drain.

Like Levitate and Fling. Levitate is Fling + yet they both have identical drain. Or Stim and Crank. In fact, why even have Stim and Fast if you can get Crank and Nutrition? I know they have 1/2-5 instead of 1/2, but the effect is so much worse. I mean, you don't need more than a F2 Nutrition spell, and all you need to do is cast Crank twice at F4.

[Aerospider]

It makes more sense to consider physical adepts as special versions of mundanes rather than special versions of the Awakened. They (generally) use their magic to be better fighters, drivers, acrobats and what-have-you whilst magicians (again, generally) use magic to do stuff that mundanes can't. Someone trying to choose between a street samurai and an adept probably has a clear idea of what they want from their character whilst someone trying to choose between a magician and an adept probably doesn't.

[Lansdren]

I think a touch based mage is a idea which can be fun.

Its also one of the mage builds that would be more relaxed when it comes to the possibility of bioware. With only one point of loss you can remove the need for a increased reflexes spell and with enough money could boost up logic as well (assuming a logic tradition).

Some of the touch spells are very drain low so can be safely overcast by even a non minmaxed mage in this supervison

[Mäx]

Stun touch is F/2-3 do force 9 is 1 drain force 11 is 2 drain.

Multicast 2 force 11 Stun touch's, thats should kill pretty much any one and usually no drain damage taken either.
Thats better damage then most unarmed adepts can diss-out in same time. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)