My Group of Shadowrunners Options

[Relecs]

Hey Dumpshock

I ran the first session of my new game tonight and it went fairly well if a little bumbling (due to my relative newness to gm'ing). The group went to meet the Johnson (this took the entire session: around 3 and a halhish hours) The big player mistake was the hacker who described himself as wearing flats when the group was going to a relatively upscale shadow establishment (a club popular among the upper echelons of the shadow running community in my home brewed city New Boston). Suffice of to say the group ended up finishing the meet without there hacker and at the end of the session the player decided he wanted to make a new character: a gunbunny


My group will now consist of:

1. A razor girl
2. A adept
3. A jack of all trades (his character is more conceptual but is just kind of all over the place skill wise [no hacking though])
4. A Face (who is only going to show up to half the sessions)
5. A Gunbunny

This means that I have no astral projection and no matrix...I am kind of happy, and kind of unsure as to what I should do.

So Dumpshock I need your help yet again.

Question 1: What do you do in a group that has little to no Matrix access (ie. not much more than data search)
Question 2: What do you do with a group that has little to no astral/magic abilities (the adept does not have astral perception and is unlikely to have it any time soon)
Question 3: Do you incorporate Matrix and Magical Defenses? If so how? (spirits for example, or security camera's that will report them to everyone)

Help me Dumpshock You're My only hope!

-Relecs

Edited: Because I was too tired to type properly.

[Neurosis]

Try not to spend entire sessions on meeting Mr. Johnson. Life is too short. Unless you're having loads of fun that way.
Try not to kick characters out of the group for dressing poorly....unless you're having loads of fun that way.

Question 1: Make sure that Hacking isn't crucial to success in your adventure design. Or let them hire an NPC hacker. Make sure the NPC hacker demands a fair share of the payment. Run him just like you would a PC, in other words.
Question 2: Hope it isn't the same group that Question 1 was about because the game is basically devolving into "shoot people"run.
Question 3: I think the example I put up recently should give some idea of this. : )

[Relecs]

The group did have fun this way, we like to joke around and I'm fine with letting things take their own time, I try to keep things on track as the gm but the players are my friends and I'd rather joke around with them than grumble at them to behave.

So how would you avoid nothing but a shoot and run if there are no astral perceivers and no matrix users.

[KarmaInferno]

Well, if a group is known not to have matrix or magic support, they will tend not to get jobs that require either.

Unfortunately this will limit them to lower end jobs, at least at first, as most tougher assignments will inevitably bring them up against magic or matrix opposition.

That said, there's probably still plenty of at least street level jobs of most types that they can do. Infiltrations, some social engineering jobs, con games, straight up wetwork. I'd more or less just create standard runs, just with few magical or matrix complications. Put them against gangers, sec guards, maybe local organized crime or corp assets.

Having no mage is going to make things rough, though. A hacker you can probably do without, maybe by hiring an NPC, but no mage is going to be ouchy.



-k

[Relecs]

Sounds like I may have dug myself quite the pit then because I have started them with syndicate level jobs and I plan to slowly move them into corporate (as our group has had more than our fair share of street level stuff from our last game master)

[Relecs]

Ok so looking at the astral form power it appears that a spirit will be unable to harm anyone in my group as..."an astral critter cannot affect other creatures in the material world, only dual natured creatures or astrally perceiving characters." (SR4A, p. 293) as such the only thing that spirits could do is report the party to the mage that summoned them.

Is this right?

[ProfGast]

Ok so looking at the astral form power it appears that a spirit will be unable to harm anyone in my group as..."an astral critter cannot affect other creatures in the material world, only dual natured creatures or astrally perceiving characters." (SR4A, p. 293) as such the only thing that spirits could do is report the party to the mage that summoned them.

Is this right?

False

Certain astral critters are capable of projecting themselves into the material world, thus allowing them to interact with physical beings. When materialized, critters may affect physical targets. Additionally, materialized critters gain Immunity to Normal Weapons.

Pretty much every spirit has Materialization. Or they have Possession. Watcher spirits are a notable exception but they're normally for well, watching.

[Relecs]

Okay so looking it over if the group fights a spirit summoned by a basic wage mage (magic 3) he can summon a force 3 spirit without much danger to himself or a force 6 spirit if he thinks it is an emergency and he's willing to deal with the ear bleeding to get it. that means that the spirits will have hardened armor 6-12 against all attacks (accept by the adepts killing hands) and add the same 6-12 to the damage resistance test. So if that is correct then it seems like a force 3 spirit would not be a tpk just a challenging fight. Where as a force 6 spirit would probably be a party wipe.

That said the biggest problem I might have is the fact that the party won't be able to stealth because some random spirit will just see them...any tips on this?

[Megu]

That said the biggest problem I might have is the fact that the party won't be able to stealth because some random spirit will just see them...any tips on this?

The key is that spirits are dumb, at least as far as understanding of the real world goes. If the spirits are looking for "intruders" and the PCs come in dressed as the cleaning staff who are supposed to be there, I mean, a watcher isn't going to know. Might not fool a real decent spirit, but a watcher? Odds are pretty good.

Even a force 6 isn't necessarily a TPK if your street samurai can dish out enough DPS (DPIP? Whatever), but it would be quite ugly.

I think your setup is fine. A lot of places won't have that much magical defenses, and those that do, you can often circumvent rather than confront. And as far as hacking goes, I mean, you can always kidnap a secretary and hit her with a wrench until she tells you the password into the system, you know? A little social engineering's just as good as hacking.

[Dakka Dakka]

If the mundanes have Stick and Shock ammo, even force 6 Spirits are dealt with quickly from the Damage resistance point of view. For everything else get a bigger gun. The problem is that they can appear nearly anywhere anytime and have all sorts of nasty powers, which are only resisted with an Attribute and Counterspelling, even if you had it, wouldn't do anything.

And don't forget, Geek the mage first.

Stealth also works against astral observers as everything that is opaque on the physical plane is opaque on the astral as well, plus solid but transparent matter (for instance glass) is opaque as well. The sneakers won't get their bonuses for ruthenium coats or camouflage, but they can still make their infiltration rolls vs the spirits Astral Perception.

I don't know what your opinion on that, but your runners could simply hire magical support. If both sides have magic they mostly cancel each other out. This could make the scenario more credible without always nearly wiping out the team.

[Makki]

you don't need a Mage to kill a F6 spirit. Every kind of electric damage (Taser, S-n-S, Shock Glove/Baton) will do easily, as will APDS. And of course the Adept will cut right through them.
F7+ gets harder, but shouldn't come up.
F5 should be more common and F4s should be for distraction. Everything lower is not worth it.

What you need a Mage for is counterspelling security mage Stunballs, unless your team is really good in tactics of avoiding that stuff. If needs must, you can suggest them to hire a freelancing Rat Shaman who sends a Guardian Spirit with Magical Guard with you...

[Dakka Dakka]

If needs must, you can suggest them to hire a freelancing Rat Shaman who sends a Guardian Spirit with Magical Guard with you...

[Nitpick]Shamans don't get Guardian Spirits.[/Nitpick] Choose another tradition.

[KarmaInferno]

Every kind of electric damage (Taser, S-n-S, Shock Glove/Baton) will do easily

This is assuming Relecs allows it.

As much as folks seem to assume that everyone allows it, there's plenty of GMs that don't, and not without reason.




-k

[Kliko]

Thats because S-n-S is just silly (IMG:style_emoticons/default/spin.gif)

The rest looks fair enough.

[Makki]

This is assuming Relecs allows it.

As much as folks seem to assume that everyone allows it, there's plenty of GMs that don't, and not without reason.




-k

You're right, i was assuming everyone allows it. I myself don't (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Ascalaphus]

So ditch the SnS, and everyone also carries a taser just in case. Problem solved. (Only works if the spirit gets within say, 15meters)

[Dakka Dakka]

So ditch the SnS, and everyone also carries a taser just in case. Problem solved. (Only works if the spirit gets within say, 15meters)

Don't forget to attach scopes to the tasers, otherwise you will have serious penalties to your attack.

[Yerameyahu]

And now we have scoped tasers instead of 'silly' SnS. Phew, dodged a bullet on that one. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Kliko]

And now we have scoped tasers instead of 'silly' SnS. Phew, dodged a bullet on that one. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

lol

[capt.pantsless]

This means that I have no astral projection and no matrix...I am kind of happy, and kind of unsure as to what I should do.

So Dumpshock I need your help yet again.

Question 1: What do you do in a group that has little to no Matrix access (ie. not much more than data search)
Question 2: What do you do with a group that has little to no astral/magic abilities (the adept does not have astral perception and is unlikely to have it any time soon)
Question 3: Do you incorporate Matrix and Magical Defenses? If so how? (spirits for example, or security camera's that will report them to everyone)

The simple answer is that you as the GM, don't add astral/magical/matrix elements to your adventures. Stick to mundane stuff, there's no rule that says you HAVE to throw everything at your runners.

I would hope that your Jack-of-all-trades (or someone) has an Electronics-Hardware skill, as that would allow you to bypass maglocks on doors, otherwise you're not going to be able to do much breaking-and-entering, which is usually the bread-and-butter of shadowrunning.

Help me Dumpshock You're My only help!

I think that should read: "Help me Dumpshock, you're my only HOPE.

[Yerameyahu]

Indeed. You can certainly play Shadowrun (-ish) without hacking or magic. You miss out on big parts of the setting, but it's not like the rest of the world disappeared. You can still talk to people, investigate things, plan, rob, beat up, shoot, protect, drive, and so on.

Don't forget (as others mentioned) that there's hacking, and then there's the Matrix. The Matrix is basically everywhere and in every device, so all your players should still be using it, a lot.

[Relecs]

@Yerameyahu

Yeah, they will still be using the matrix (data search, commcalls, AR assistance, etc.) I just misspoke(typed?) I guess what I really meant is that there will be a distinct lack of 4/5 people in the party doing there thing while the last guy hops along in VR slitting gameplay. (because no one in the party has yet to make a successful AR combat Hacker.

@capt.pantsless

As far as just not adding it is concerned: It just feels a little forced. Like for example, Wuxing is a known magical corp if my players end up doing a run on wuxing it would feel silly to just have all the magical defense just disapear.

As well thanks for pointing out the error, edited.



Too all who suggested hiring an npc hacker/mage: My main problem with this is a group who is all ready 4 members strong (5 half the time) and I don't really want a huge group of like 6 or 7 it starts to feel silly. As well I personally hate making specialist npcs.

Here's why
GM: Ok you enter the compound you can see the camera's slowly turning
GM: "Hey guys just let me take care of those camera's" (as hacker)
GM: The hacker turns of the camera's.
Player 1: Thanks...

or

GM: Ok you enter the compound you can see the camera's slowly turning.
Player 1: Alright how do we get past this?

Example 1 = No Fun Allowed
Example 2 = Fun challenges.



I guess I'm just nitpicky I don't want to get rid of an important part of the world but I also don't want to provide players with an easy way out.

[Ramorta]

GM: Ok you enter the compound you can see the camera's slowly turning.

1) Offsite matrix security - Have your face do some legwork and send the sammie over to Joe Wageslave's house and "convince" him to turn off the cameras/alarms.

2) Kill the power. It's cliche. It works.

3) Equipment. I seem to recall there being an anti-camera laser system somewhere....

[Yerameyahu]

Well, that one has to be mounted on a vehicle, basically. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Ramorta]

The camera neutralizer, page 59 of arsenal. It has a capacity cost of [5], You could stuff that into a cyberlimb. I don't see anywhere that it lists you have to mount it on a vehicle.