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> Sound Elemental effect, Mystic Armor (and Ortohskin, I guess), Questions, input, and advice
jaellot
post Oct 24 2010, 06:41 PM
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So in my game I got an adept who has Killing Hands with the Elemental Effect- Sound. He likes the ignoring armor. He also has some Mystic Armor, and is of the opinion that it would still work against such an attack. He said this when I joked I should hit him with the same thing.

He's wrong, of course. Mystic Armor is just extra armor points that stack. My question is more of a curiousity in regards to something like Orthoskin. It's armor, true, but it's also your skin. Also feel free to dwell on the Mystic Armor/Elemental Sound stuff. I'm sure there could be good arguments for why the MA should work all in all...

Thanks in advance!
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Ramorta
post Oct 24 2010, 07:30 PM
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There is actually a special adept power that does exactly what your player is stating (Elemental Resistance, page 17 of the digital grimoire) that allows you to apply your mystic armor rating against an elemental effect (Sound in this instance).

As for orthoskin, its just more armor, it wouldn't offer any protection against sound based attacks. (No orthoskin on your eardrums or your brain.)
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jaellot
post Oct 25 2010, 01:43 AM
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I've heard the digital grimoire mentioned in another thread. I take it that this is a Pdf of some sort?
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KarmaInferno
post Oct 25 2010, 01:57 AM
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See here.





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Neraph
post Oct 26 2010, 12:23 AM
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QUOTE (Ramorta @ Oct 24 2010, 02:30 PM) *
As for orthoskin, its just more armor, it wouldn't offer any protection against sound based attacks. (No orthoskin on your eardrums or your brain.)

Correct. You need Sound Damping.

You should also be making all his damage Stun - not physical. I know that Killing Hands is a prerequisit for Elemental Strike, but that does not mean that you should be able to use Killing Hands to alter the elemental effect of Elemental Strike.

EDIT: The Silence spell also helps, IIRC.
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toturi
post Oct 26 2010, 03:16 AM
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QUOTE (Neraph @ Oct 26 2010, 08:23 AM) *
You should also be making all his damage Stun - not physical. I know that Killing Hands is a prerequisit for Elemental Strike, but that does not mean that you should be able to use Killing Hands to alter the elemental effect of Elemental Strike.

Why should it not?
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Yerameyahu
post Oct 26 2010, 03:36 AM
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Cue rehash of this *again*. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) I think it does make sense for the element's effect to be the real basis… and the element's effect is Stun.
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toturi
post Oct 26 2010, 03:55 AM
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QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Oct 26 2010, 11:36 AM) *
Cue rehash of this *again*. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) I think it does make sense for the element's effect to be the real basis… and the element's effect is Stun.

I agree that the element's effect is Stun, but does Killing Hands not apply to such an unarmed elemental attack, thus turning it into Physical? Just as normally without Killing Hands, the character's body is the real basis and the effect is Stun.
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Yerameyahu
post Oct 26 2010, 04:00 AM
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I agree that logically, it could go either way (replacing, or stacking). I always err on the side of less-broken. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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Neraph
post Oct 26 2010, 05:11 AM
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QUOTE (toturi @ Oct 25 2010, 09:16 PM) *
Why should it not?

Because as Yerameyahu (I can spell your name without checking it now...) mentioned (kind of), the elemental effect should take precedent over the Killing Hands ability. You also don't get things like an adept with Sonic fists punching a tank and having it explode because it can't soak the damage properly.
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toturi
post Oct 26 2010, 06:11 AM
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QUOTE (Neraph @ Oct 26 2010, 01:11 PM) *
Because as Yerameyahu (I can spell your name without checking it now...) mentioned (kind of), the elemental effect should take precedent over the Killing Hands ability. You also don't get things like an adept with Sonic fists punching a tank and having it explode because it can't soak the damage properly.

I do not see why an adept with Sonic Killing Hands should not punch a tank and having it fall apart because it can't soak the damage without its armor.

What I would like to know is whether there is any rule that explicitly prohibits the Killing Hands effect from changing an elemental unarmed attack from stun to physical?
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Yerameyahu
post Oct 26 2010, 06:16 AM
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Is there a rule that explicitly says it *can*? No. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) I thought I made it clear that there are two interpretations, and one is abusive.

Anyway, I look at it like this: the element is Stun and Ignore Armor. You don't get to pick and choose what parts of the element you want.
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toturi
post Oct 26 2010, 06:29 AM
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QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Oct 26 2010, 02:16 PM) *
Is there a rule that explicitly says it *can*? No. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) I thought I made it clear that there are two interpretations, and one is abusive.

Anyway, I look at it like this: the element is Stun and Ignore Armor. You don't get to pick and choose what parts of the element you want.

As I see it, you'd get Stun and Ignore Armor when you have Elemental Strike overrule Killing Hands.

When you consider both abilities equally, the Stun part (if the element produces Stun) of Elemental Strike can be changed into physical, just like any other unarmed attack.

Thus unless there is an explicit rule that allows Elemental Strike overrule Killing Hands, I would consider both Elemental Strike and Killing Hands to be of equal weight. If for some reason or another, the character does not want to use Killing Hands while his Elemental Strike is active, then yes, he does not get to pick and choose.
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Yerameyahu
post Oct 26 2010, 06:39 AM
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Yes, and that's one interpretation. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) You can play it however you'd like at your table. At mine, the effects of an element are all one thing: Stun-and-Ignore-Armor, in the case of Sonic. If you change the Stun, you lose any other effects as well. That way, you're getting 100% of the intended result of Elemental Strike (what you paid for), and none of the murderous overpower. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

This is clearly a house rule, which could theoretically also be the RAW. Yours could also be the RAW. I'm not overly concerned with that honor, because the RAW is often wrong, but obviously I think it's important for us all to be on the same page. I hope I've made it clear that I'm not claiming your reading of the rules is incorrect. Aside: the various elements don't seem to be very well-thought-out in the first place, which is traditional for splatbooks. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) Oh well.
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