LSD dipped slugs, WTF, those crazy players Options

[Dwight]

Player says he's going to coat his slugs with a dose. What effect? Not sure what he's expecting as I didn't grill him on it. It was sort of an offhand thing a player mentioned. A lot of other things going on, and it didn't have any effect on the events last session (he shot someone with a gun he'd wrestled away from an opponent, he only shot a window with his own), and I wasn't sure which way it should go.

While not the normal vector, LSD is injectable (actually, IIRC, the most likely LSD overdose death was from a massive injection). So I suppose it's possible that very poor transfer from a slug via a wound could occur.

So what effect would you expect this to have?

[Sixgun_Sage]

Player says he's going to coat his slugs with a dose. What effect? Not sure what he's expecting as I didn't grill him on it. It was sort of an offhand thing a player mentioned. A lot of other things going on, and it didn't have any effect on the events last session (he shot someone with a gun he'd wrestled away from an opponent, he only shot a window with his own), and I wasn't sure which way it should go.

While not the normal vector, LSD is injectable (actually, IIRC, the most likely LSD overdose death was from a massive injection). So I suppose it's possible that very poor transfer from a slug via a wound could occur.

So what effect would you expect this to have?

Nothing, a round is subjected to intense heat and pressure that would destroy the drug.

[Ascalaphus]

Yeah, it's capsule rounds or needles if you want to put fluids to people.

[AStarshipforAnts]

Imagine my disappointment when I realized that you didn't mean slugs, as in the invertebrates. ):

[Suicidal Street ...]

Imagine my disappointment when I realized that you didn't mean slugs, as in the invertebrates. ):

Not that we couldn't incorporate psychotropically-coated invertebrates into OUR game...

[CanRay]

Lace your bullets with PCP, and you have a legitimate "reason" for shooting people in self-defense.

If you can find a drug museum, that is... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[KarmaInferno]

Yeah, it's capsule rounds or needles if you want to put fluids to people.

I dunno, you could probably roll up a half dozen tabs of LSD and insert it into a hollowpoint, seal the hole with a plug.




-k

[Dwight]

I dunno, you could probably roll up a half dozen tabs of LSD and insert it into a hollowpoint, seal the hole with a plug.

That's the thing. I don't think a simple surface treatment on bal rounds would work. I don't think using blotter would work either, too bulky. But a pure crystal deposit in the hollowpoint or under a normal nylon cap. LSD is fairly sturdy, doesn't boil till over 500C. It'll oxydize over time but the heat it'd be exposed to being fired is very short lived, and in a grove like that I don't see melting (80C) being that much of an issue? Dose is in 10's of micrograms, very tiny amounts are required.

The biggest problem with the vector I think is the time to dissolve and then get into the bloodstream, after the slug has made such a mess of the flesh (and therefore the vascular system) in the immediate area.

[Yerameyahu]

Tell him the rules for toxin delivery are darts and capsules. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Dwight]

Tell him the rules for toxin delivery are darts and capsules. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Well actually there aren't....yet. It hasn't really come up before.


Probably though I just really need to figure out just what he has in mind for effects, what the point is. I got the distinct impression that he still wants to sling lead, just have a little kicker of flair. *shrug*

[Doc Chase]

Not that we couldn't incorporate psychotropically-coated invertebrates into OUR game...

...I have an idea. Avoid French cuisine for the next few sessions.

[sabs]

Even if he did manage to get LSD into a coated bullet and have it work. The effect would be pretty minor.. compared to BEING SHOT.

[Doc Chase]

Indeed. You're better off using DMSO and hitting them with a squirt gun.

[Dwight]

Even if he did manage to get LSD into a coated bullet and have it work. The effect would be pretty minor.. compared to BEING SHOT.

For major wounds, yeah. The better part of your hipbone just got shattered by a rifle shot? It isn't going to matter so much whether you are also balls tripping. But for lighter wounds....

'Squirt guns' and the like are easily blocked by impermeable membranes, glass windows, etc.

Anyway, thanks for everyone's thoughts.

[Tanegar]

For major wounds, yeah. The better part of your hipbone just got shattered by a rifle shot? It isn't going to matter so much whether you are also balls tripping. But for lighter wounds....

'Squirt guns' and the like are easily blocked by impermeable membranes, glass windows, etc.

Anyway, thanks for everyone's thoughts.

Impermeable membranes... over your entire body? Konnichi-wa, asphyxiation!

[Yerameyahu]

Duh. FFBA. Any of a number of armor suits. Hell, scotchguarded clothing. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[sabs]

FFBA or Armor Suits are not impermeable membranes. If a suit of armor is sealed, it needs an oxygen tank.
The human body will go into shock if you deprive the pores with their ability to do oxygen and urine transfers.

[Fauxknight]

For major wounds, yeah. The better part of your hipbone just got shattered by a rifle shot? It isn't going to matter so much whether you are also balls tripping. But for lighter wounds....

LSD would be one of those drugs that provides high pain tolerence, someone tripping balls on LSD takes significantly more ammo to drop than someone who isn't.

[TheScrivener]

Even injected though, LSD can take minutes to hours to have any appreciable effect. Not really a useful combat application, but if it's used to create confusion amongst survivors, more power to them! Gotta love psyops.

[Dwight]

LSD would be one of those drugs that provides high pain tolerence, someone tripping balls on LSD takes significantly more ammo to drop than someone who isn't.

While LSD has been studied for treating chronic pain (more so at sub-psychedelic dosages), when someone is tripping the sensory/reasoning muddling created by the psychedelic, especially in someone not expecting it, means they don't really need to 'drop' to be effectively neutralized. ((Although doing crazy-ass actions could definitely be a wild card. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) ))

Even injected though, LSD can take minutes to hours to have any appreciable effect. Not really a useful combat application, but if it's used to create confusion amongst survivors, more power to them! Gotta love psyops.

This is more along the line of what I was thinking (EDIT:but I couldn't find onset times for IM or IV injections). Wing someone, they run and escape, madness ensues.....which is really what interests me with this. I'm thinking this could be highly entertaining used from the other side of the table. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/devil.gif)

[Shrike30]

Hollowpoints aren't exactly great at piercing armor, either. I vaguely recall SR4 having hollowpoint ammunition rules added in Arsenal, handling kind of like flechette ammo but less so.

If you want to let your player run these rounds, go for it... it's your game. Use basic rules for hollowpoints, and if the hit inflicts physical damage, the target gets a dose of whatever onboard. This would probably be a bit OP compared to basic capsule/injection ammo, but it's your game. Also, of course, there's the problem of "it might kill the guy," which capsule/injection ammo doesn't have unless you load it with something lethal. I wonder what it'd cost per round, when you figure in the cost of drugs?

RE: impermeable barriers. Chemically sealed armor and things like chemsuits have been around for a while in SR, and we have modern HAZMAT gear which would be immune to weapons like the SuperSquirt. Just because your armor qualifies as an impermeable barrier doesn't mean it's a *skintight* impermeable barrier, which is where you'd run into the more immediate toxicity problems associated with dumb stuff like shrink-wrapping or full-body-painting people.

[Yerameyahu]

sabs, obviously you'd modify the armor: Chem Seal, or the less cousin, Chem Protection. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) I was just responding to Tanegar's incredulous 'entire body?!' question.

[Dragonscript]

I remember reading somewhere that during WW1, some soldiers would smash the tips of their rounds into onions so if the round did hit but did not kill, the victim would most likely get blood poisoning and die from that. Coating a round in anything will not have an effect while in combat, but could lead to a very nasty post combat infection that would kill the character.

[Yerameyahu]

Onions are poisonous?

[Doc Chase]

Bad onions are. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

Maybe they figured if mustard gas was coming from mustard seeds, onions were just potential weapons of mass destruction?