Walking Dead, on AMC Options

[Critias]

Character-wise, I'm 50-50. I was surprised at the amount of hate for the Shane character on another tv review sight-- the guy seems to be doing the best he can. And I'm not sure I buy the whole infidelity angst angle either; there has to be some sort of apocolypse waiver for booty calls.

The bigger issue was that he lied about Rick being dead. If I'm for-sure Zombie kibble -- pulled apart, gnawed to pieces, and gone -- my wife can do whatever she'd need to do in order to feel safe, to get protection for herself and our kid (if we had one by then), etc, etc. If turning to my best friend for comfort got her through the night and kept her sane during a Zombpocalypse, I'm all for it.

But not if I'm not actually dead, and my "best friend" is the one that told my wife I was right before he started to rub naughty bits with her.

I don't have a problem with Shane for his leadership style. He's playing it safer than your average Hollywood type would (plus), he's being kind of a dick about it (minus, but I can understand), and I, for one, loved it when he took out his frustration beating the shit out of Ed at the end of episode 3 (big plus, to me). What's more, he reflexively got Rick's back during the scuffle at the camp (plus). As a character, as a cop who's trying to keep a camp alive, all that stuff? I like him just fine.

But him telling Lori that Rick was dead when he wasn't, and then sleeping with her? Nnnnnnnope. That's his only big black mark, to me.

[capt.pantsless]

The bigger issue was that he lied about Rick being dead.
But him telling Lori that Rick was dead when he wasn't, and then sleeping with her? Nnnnnnnope. That's his only big black mark, to me.

I'm not so sure that Shane's lie was really that bad.

The hospital Rick was at was clearly overrun with Zeds, and Shane was probably right to assume that Rick was a gonner. Lying to Lori, and telling her that Rick was dead forces her to focus on her own survival, and the survival of her son, Carl. Keep in mind, I'm deep into the land of speculation here, but that lie probably saved their lives.

So for the last month or so, Shane and Lori have been through hell, and there's a natural attraction between the two, and they wind-up doing the horizontal mambo. Again, by this point, some guy in a coma in a hospital swarming with flesh-hungry undead is f-ing dead and gone, so I don't really fault Shane for doing what comes naturally. Frankly, if my wife was rescued from zombies by my best friend, and I'm dead and gone, they can make the sexy-time all they want. Hopefully there will be enough condoms left in the world.

For me, it comes down to this: Did Shane lie to Lori with the intent of bedding her?

[Critias]

From Lori's little rant at him, and from Shane's attitude towards women (and knowledge of Lori and Rick's marital issues)...I'd guess "yes," myself.

[capt.pantsless]

I'd guess "yes," myself.

I'm leaning that way too, but my usual compulsion to root for the underdog compels me to give Shane the benefit of the doubt.

It looks like things are going to come to a head quickly - Rick's going to find-out sooner or later about Shane and Lori.

[Critias]

I don't see him as an irredeemable villain (and I didn't in the comics, quite), for the record. I'm just saying that to me, personally, a line was crossed that I would not appreciate happening to me and my family.

If it had happened fairly innocently, with both of them genuinely believing I was dead for reasonable reasons, with neither deceiving the other into thinking so (or, of course, if I was verifiably and certainly deceased), I'd have no problem with Mrs. Crit and my best friend doing whatever they had to do. I like to think, in fact, I'd be happy for 'em both, y'know?

But the addition of deceit to it changes the whole nature of that game, on a personal level. He's not a mustachio twirling villain, and I hope they don't make him into one...but, rather, an understandable reaction then turned into an excusable mistake which has now become a purposeful sin, and that just adds a little different spin on the character.

[Mercer]

I can't call it at lie (Shane saying Rick was dead) on the info provided so far. Given that Rick was in a coma and left in a hospital that was completely overwhelmed by zombies, saying he was dead would far and away be a the only reasonable assumption.

Now, this could not be the timeline. Shane could have said Rick was dead long before the hospital was overrun, the evac had failed, or things were even looking that bad (as far as a scenario in which the dead walk can look okay, anyway). If that's the case, then that's a much bigger issue than the former scenario. Given the miraculous nature of Rick's survival, I can't hold anyone assuming he was dead against them.

I'm guessing we'll have to wait a few episodes to find out how much of a bastard Shane may (or may not) be.

[capt.pantsless]

... an understandable reaction then turned into an excusable mistake which has now become a purposeful sin, and that just adds a little different spin on the character.

Exactly.

I'm struck by this thought: Darabont and Co. where probably trying to cause exactly what we are doing now: Taking on the internet about what a characters true motivations where.

I gotta say, all in all, the amount that they've deviated from the comics certainly keeps the show interesting for those that have read them 12 times.

[Critias]

Yup (on both those points). I'm still enjoying it because the characters look right, the setting feels right, the overall tension is just like I want from the comics, the casting and costuming folks have done a great job, special effects have done a terrific job (for a tv show budget)...but there have been enough divergences from the comic plot that I'm still wondering what will happen next, and to whom. I'm as big a fan of loyal on-screen adaptations of my beloved literature as the next guy, but this has been a real treat.

[CanadianWolverin...]

I can't fault the Shane of the tv show for telling Lori that Rick was a goner. Seeing the condition of that hospital, it was miraculous Rick didn't die there while in a coma, there were a plethora of potential sources of death there. And they would have known upon arriving near Atlanta and not being able to get in because everyone was getting out of dodge who could (the road) that what they had been told of a evac of people to Atlanta from the hospital was no longer going to happen.

Heck, I don't even fault the Rick of the comic book, he only steps over the line when he doesn't want the camp to move somewhere safer, then tries to kill Rick while hunting and Carl puts a bullet in him. That level betrayal shapes a lot of what Rick's character later becomes.

It will be interesting to see if the show goes in that direction or diverges heavily from the comic in regards to Shane. I am enjoying all the other differences they have put in so far.

[Mercer]

On the other hand, even if Shane lied to Rick's wife, unplugged Rick's life support and personally led the horde of zombies to the hospital, that'd still make him only the third most reprehensible character on the show so far. With Merle and Ed in the group, it doesn't take much to make it into the middle of the pack in terms of decency.

That's what I meant when I said I was 50-50 on the characters. Ed and Merle are so reprehensible that I think it's a weak point in the show. If either of them had one redeeming feature shown, that would be something. As it stands, Merle is a drug addicted, violent white supremecist who was actively engaged in getting everyone on the rooftop killed before threatening to kill them himself. There was really no moral ambiguity to handcuffing him, and really none to leaving him.

I'm guessing as the show goes along the choices are going to get harder and the survivors are going to be less tolerant of assholes who endanger the group. For now, it seems like the characters are always a little behind the audience, which is one way of generating suspense but it's also kind of frustrating. Characters don't have to do dumb things to make situations more exciting, that seems a little lazy on the part of the writers.

Not to poop on the proverbial Cheerios though. I enjoy the show, but I do spend part of each episode groaning in frustration. Maybe it's just that as gamers, we've spent way more time thinking about zombie apocolypses than the average AMC viewer.

[Reg06]

That's what I meant when I said I was 50-50 on the characters. Ed and Merle are so reprehensible that I think it's a weak point in the show. If either of them had one redeeming feature shown, that would be something. As it stands, Merle is a drug addicted, violent white supremecist who was actively engaged in getting everyone on the rooftop killed before threatening to kill them himself. There was really no moral ambiguity to handcuffing him, and really none to leaving him.

I agree with you on Merle- I'd prefer he be less of a clear bad guy (but it doesn't bother me, possibly because I find white supremacists interesting. The way I find ebola interesting). But Ed hasn't done anything that would tarnish his name besides support Merle. He seems like just hick who has a bad older brother who he supports and loves because he is his older brother.

[capt.pantsless]

I agree with you on Merle- I'd prefer he be less of a clear bad guy (but it doesn't bother me, possibly because I find white supremacists interesting. The way I find ebola interesting). But Ed hasn't done anything that would tarnish his name besides support Merle. He seems like just hick who has a bad older brother who he supports and loves because he is his older brother.

Ed is the wife-beater. Daryl is Merle's brother.

In any case, Ed is more of a set-piece for Shane to beat-up so the audience can see his inner turmoil. He's such a stock-character it isn't worth the screen-time to flesh-out.

Robert Kirkman himself wrote the screenplay for this week's episode, it'll be interesting to see if the tone of the series takes any sharp turns.

[Reg06]

Ah. Yeah, I hated Ed being on screen. Not worth being there. It would have been interesting if Shane had beaten someone who didn't deserve it.

[Mercer]

So far Shane and Darryl are the two characters I find the most interesting. On one end of the spectrum you have the Ed and Merle guys who are so unsympathetic as to be reprhensible, and on the other you have Rick, who's acting like he's worried about losing his paladin abilities. Shane, Darryl and I'll add in Lori, they're flawed and they're conflicted, but there's enough there that I sympathize with them. Nobody else in the camp has really been fleshed out enough to catch my interest, but I like the old guy too.

[Hocus Pocus]

well the 5th and i suppose season ending episode is next week. Wonder if they'll parcel it out like psych or eurokea.

good so far.

[capt.pantsless]

well the 5th and i suppose season ending episode is next week. Wonder if they'll parcel it out like psych or eurokea.

good so far.

[Minor Quibble] 6th episode[/Minor Quibble], and yes, it is the season finale. Next season is slated to be 13 episodes, but I haven't heard exactly when that's going to officially start. Apparently, Frank Darabont is replacing most/all of the writers:

http://spinoff.comicbookresources.com/2010...s-for-season-2/

[klinktastic]

It was a good first season. Definitely left one intrigued by the possibities for the show. Hopefully they don't F it up.

[Hocus Pocus]

finally watched the episode 6 lastnight. very good first season. high hopes for next.

[Kagetenshi]

I was a little sad that they had the building structure get demolished (I can believe FAE-based decontamination, but not that they'd kick the power up so high as to entirely demolish the building), and there are other similar little flaws here and there, but overall very solid.

~J

[KarmaInferno]

To kill every little bug in the atmosphere requires they saturate the entire complex with the aerosol fuel. That's gonna take down pretty much any building, even fortified structures.




-k

[Hocus Pocus]

Season 2 begins this sunday at 8pm

[Kagetenshi]

To kill every little bug in the atmosphere requires they saturate the entire complex with the aerosol fuel.

Well, yes, but there are other factors determining the power of the blast, and they'd be most likely to optimize for temperature and blast duration.

That's gonna take down pretty much any building, even fortified structures.

Possibly. I'll grant that my previous objection was too strong, but IIRC the blast sends pieces of structure flying up and out; a simple collapse (with associated fireball) would have been more tasteful and believable IMO.

~J

[KarmaInferno]

Fuel-Air Explosives don't destroy near-every-damn-thing in their blast radius just because of the fire aspect, though that is a factor.

FAEs also have a massive overpressure effect. All that burning aerosol fuel creates a titanic amount of gaseous material in a real big hurry. Buildings tend to fall down in their wake because their walls and ceilings get blown out. The massive blast is part and parcel of an FAE.

Debris flying up and out is entirely realistic.

Accidental fuel-air explosion during a training exercise. Fortunately nobody was killed, but that explosion wasn't the gas soaked into the structure, it was the gas vapors in the air.

Also, on topic, The Walken Dead



-k

[CanRay]

Canister rounds for cannons would be a good start. Everyone knows Shotguns are good against Zeds, and that turns the Cannons into really big Shotguns. The rest of the rounds, not so good. Maybe HE, but you'd end up with a lot of dangerous crawlers from the edges of the blast.

No, marksmen are a better idea.

[Kagetenshi]

Fuel-Air Explosives don't destroy near-every-damn-thing in their blast radius just because of the fire aspect, though that is a factor.

But when you're talking microbes, I think it'd be the overwhelming factor. I may be wrong, though.

FAEs also have a massive overpressure effect. All that burning aerosol fuel creates a titanic amount of gaseous material in a real big hurry. Buildings tend to fall down in their wake because their walls and ceilings get blown out. The massive blast is part and parcel of an FAE.

Debris flying up and out is entirely realistic.

I'm still not convinced, but I'd have to do nontrivial research to pursue the point. Maybe sometime.

~J