Building a better Technomancer..., Halp. Options

[Neurosis]

So, the one character type I have no idea how to build well or optimize is a technomancer. I'm not very familiar with the rules for them, and the amount of BP they have to dump into mental attributes, special attribute (Resonance), Complex Forms, and the Tasking Skill Group in addition to the skills that hackers need (Electronics and Hacking) really seems to be making them badly sub-optimal compared to Hackers. I helped my friend build one the other day (for the Emergence campaign, so the character is one of the very first TMs) and I really think I did him a disservice. I was in a hurry, he had a lot of probably-destructive ideas he was very emphatic about (he insisted on being a Technomancer and he wanted Edge 6), I managed to argue it down to Edge 4, and dropped his Resonance down to 5 (4) taking an essence worth of overly good bioware to make up the difference in some of his attributes to save points to get him Tasking 4, Electronics 3, and Cracking 4. Maxed out 35 Pts. from Negative Qualities and everything but anyway, his character is really just not stacking up and I really want to hand him a better version of the same build if the GM will allow it.

So, Dumpshock, please halp. How do you make a good Technomancer with 400 BP?

[TheScrivener]

TMs really are an easy build to botch - I have one in my current game and it's taken more time than anyone to help her complete the build.

One of the first things you need to look at is what their specialty will be - since CFs are limited to Logx2 they want to place those points wisely. Are they going to rig drones? Disrupt enemies in combat? Just intrude on systems directly? How often will they use sprites? I'd say start out with going down the different "job expectations" of a hacker character and ranking them, then asking yourself how much you want to use sprites with each one. The single most important thing you get Resonance-level CFs for, and make sure your stream has a type of sprite you can use to help with that. If you want to sit back and let sprites do most of the work, pump Charisma, otherwise Logic and Intuition should be higher. I'm a big fan of the Sourceror stream - Machine and Crack sprites to help out in combat, Code and Data sprites for tricky long-form hacking work, and Logic-based Fading resist. With high Logic you get System, more CFs and, if the GM uses optional rules, higher Software test results. That's one way, there's tons of specializations and all that's just off the top of my head. Good luck.

[Sengir]

Technos really are big karma/BP sinks. On the other hand, unless you go the rigger route there's really no worry about cash. So maybe you want to put some purchases back until after chargen.
Some other random advice:
- Decompiling is totally not worth it, better get compiling and registering individually
- TMs really only use their System rating for damage resistance, so depending on your play style it might not be as important as it is for normal hackers. Of course, a lot of tech skills also use Logic
- Intuition should be above average since that determines your VR initiative, combined with the ability to thread the sensor softwares from Arsenal you can become a good spotter
- My standard for Essence-consious characters, a hollow tooth costs 0 Essence and can be filled with various helpful chemicals.

[Udoshi]

Fingernail datachip storages are cheap, effective, no-essence loss ways of getting a place to store data for a TM. You can find them in arsenal.
A resonance bond to a free sprite is incredibly awesome. 5bp for Stability means you can never glitch on the matrix again, and being able to rush job everything(particularly decryption). Also lets you trade registered sprites for cheaper submersion.
Technomancer Networks cost no karma to join. Take one as a contact!
If you plan on rigging at all, More Than Metahuman will save you from drone-destruction dumpshock as long as you have a free action available.
Be A Sprite Wrangler - lowbie technomancers are all about whipping up sprites to do your bidding until you're awesome enough to do it on your own.
Suck It Up And Play An Ork. You need every point you can get. Even with human looking its 25-for-70 effective(plus a hit to system and biofeedback filter). Elves are a runner up - a threading specialized Elf/Infosavant/Face with sensorware and simrig complex forms can be very good. Avoid troll. You just won't have the points.
Consider taking Trust Fund and Homeground. A homegrounded warehouse with a Resonance Well and In Tune and/or Fung Shui(hacking skills are technical skills) can make a VERY effective hack at home lifestyle.
Get A Paragon. They're cheap and good. Don't look back.
If you're playing a technorigger, don't worry about your Logic so much. Per Unwired, Subscriptions beyond your subscription limit count as Running Programs against your processor load(yes, this means network spamming someone can lower their response). Technomancers never deal with running programs, only complex forms, but they still have a System, so they still have a processor load to use up for extra Subscriptions.

Decide if you want Ware. Your living avatar stats are capped by your resonance. A cerebral booster can put your Log at 7 or 8 easily, but your system will be at most 5. Pain Editors are hilarious for technomancers.(internet damage is stun damage, pain editors help with stun damage) and well worth 5bp for restricted gear. Cyberhands are good.(secondhand nanohives) On the other hand, raising your resonance to 6 is expensive karmawise, so it might be better to start with it.

Prioritize your complex forms. Decide what you want your technomancer to do. Find the matrix actions he needs to take to do that. Discard ones your sprite can do for you. Buy the remaining complex forms up to their max. (CF's are a bargian buy in BP-gen, compared to karma cost. Its expensive, but its worth it)

However, the most important thing to do, is figure our what you want your TM to do first. Pick a Stream that best lets you do that, and then pick a race with a non-penalized mental stat for that stream.

Advanced tricks: Fill up on negative qualities, but not positive so much - just the TM for 5 if you can help it. Use the 30 net points to start with resonance 6.


Thats the best I got for now, man. I'd love to help, but I need details for your build. I also need to know what books you have access too.

[SleepIncarnate]

Wow, yeah, where to begin? Ok, first off, I'm going to argue with Udoshi a bit and say don't go ork unless you specifically want a character built around soaking (or rather taking) damage as opposed to avoiding it. Charisma is your biofeedback filter, and since orks and trolls get reduced charisma (not to mention all the other reduced attributes a troll gets), that's a hit to your ability to deal with black IC, but it is compensated for by the increased body to let you soak more physical damage. Really, dwarves and elves are likely your best TM's, dwarves get both increased willpower (which is your firewall and resonance linked attribute for cyberadepts and e-scapists) and body, and elves get the increased charisma that makes for good faces as secondaries in addition to it being biofeedback filter and linked to your amount of registered sprites (they make great technoshamans and networkers). Humans still make good TMs though, especially with increased Edge, which your friend seems determined to get despite it being an area starting TMs tend to be worse off at than mundanes. Face it, a good TM is going to want high logic (for starting CF's as well as damage soak), high willpower (for firewall), high intuition (for Matrix initiative), and high charisma if it's their resonance linked attribute (and decent if it's not, for biofeedback filter and number of registered sprites), plus good resonance (which is the cap for all of the others), so this character is going to be very mentals heavy at creation, plus resonance, so physically, TMs are rarely imposing at creation.

Then, as has been said, determine what type of role he wants his TM to fill, and focus on that area. Pick your CFs for it. But the fact of the matter is, every TM, be they rigger, on the spot hacker, on the fly hacker, AR hacker, purely VR hacker, whatever is going to want a handful of essential CFs: exploit, stealth, shield (or armor), attack. Which leaves you another 2-8 to pick based on which role you want to fill. But most TM's will end up starting with something looking similar to the pre-made TM in the book, not necessarily the numbers but most of the same starting CFs.

As has also been said, decompiling is not that useful, rather than taking the Tasking group, I'd buy the skills seperately, buying one rank of decompiling, and then a few ranks each of both compiling and registering, whichever is deemed more important being higher: is this character going to mostly compile on the fly and not register, or will they mostly use registered sprites? This question also affects above in the determination as to how much charisma to buy at creation. The electronics group is another that doesn't necessarily need to be taken as a whole. Unless the TM is a rigger, they likely don't have much use for the hardware skill, but software is essential for threading (and if the GM allows, threading should be taken as a specialization). Data search is tied to one CF, and only that one, so it can also be left at lower levels (unless you're build an infomancer/investigator style TM built around finding information), as every tradition starts with the data sprite which can do data seaching much more efficiently than a starting TM. Computer is still important for analyze tests, but due to a TM's inherent +2 bonus to all Matrix perception tests, it's not AS important as for a mundane hacker (but still important). Which leaves the cracking group, which are all fairly important for hacking, cybercombat, and scan/sniffer. An example of a standard hacker (either on the fly or probing style) TM might look like this on those three groups: Cracking Group 4, Computer 3, Software 4 (Threading +2), Data Search 1, Decompiling 1, Registering 4, Compiling 3.

As for qualities, the Matrix User chapter in the front of Unwired does a pretty good job of describing those. In fact, it helps answer a lot for this question, though it is more general towards all hackers and riggers, not just TMs.

[Udoshi]

Charisma is your biofeedback filter

Are you forgetting you can thread your biofeedback filter up?
Yes, its a complex form equal to your charisma, that you can't buy up with karma.
But its a complex form. Sprite assist or thread that shit up, yo.

[Irion]

Well, the use of threading to increase the biofeedback filter is a two edged sword.
It reduces all your other pools by two. (It becomes a alternative if you run with the rule, that the submersion which reduces this penalty counts for every threaded complex form. So taken two times and you do not suffer any drawbacks)
Other than that I would also suggest taking a high charisma build. An other important point is, that you are able to go down the face path as well, for just 40 BP or 55 Karma.
Trolls are not such a good idea in my book, since they have two big Problems:
First: They are big. You wont have the Karma to max out Body so you got 4 points (worth around 70 Karma). Well, it is worth a lot, thats right. But what are you doing with it? Body 3 is enough for the basic armor. And the possibility to take cover more easy can make up more than 3 dices to soak.
You also run into problems with transportation.
Second: They got less Logic. Logic limits the amount of complex forms you may start with (and gives you also a free points in knowledge skills). And since there is no point in game, where you may get complex forms that cheap... (complex form 5: 5 BP or 15 Karma thats a 1 to 3 ratio) (The only thing better is to max out body and strength with trolls, but how often will you be in need of this extra dices)

[Sengir]

But its a complex form.

Nope, it isn't:

For each program there is an equivalent complex form, with the exception of Biofeedback Filter, which is part of the living persona.

So you can't thread it any more than your System rating. Yes, I am fully aware that you will now produce some obscure paragraph where the writer neglected the "except Feedback filter, emulated skillsofts, and everything else we already told you not to thread", but the the idea behind the rules is clear here.


And Orks are suprisingly good TMs when you look at the numbers. Instead of a human with Body and Strength 2, you get Bod 4 and Str 3 for the same 20BP. If the lacking point of Charisma hurts, get Cha 5 and Natural Hardening, does the same job. Also, I love using "wrong" metatypes or otherwise breaking "X will always be used for Y" tropes...just for the heck of it.

[Karoline]

And Orks are suprisingly good TMs when you look at the numbers. Instead of a human with Body and Strength 2, you get Bod 4 and Str 3 for the same 20BP. If the lacking point of Charisma hurts, get Cha 5 and Natural Hardening, does the same job. Also, I love using "wrong" metatypes or otherwise breaking "X will always be used for Y" tropes...just for the heck of it.

Yeah, but it cost you BP to get ork, so even though it doesn't infringe on your 200 stat cap, it does infringe on your 400 total cap. And 99.99% of the time, a TM isn't going to be worried about their strength. And about 80+% of the time, not going to be too worried about body either, so those are largely wasted points.

I'd have to say Elf makes good for those charisma points, and a free agility point, the most commonly used physical stat, making decent infiltration and such a bit easier to manage. Dwarves, as mentioned, are also not bad due to the increased willpower, though I personally prefer elf with a charisma based stream, since charisma is used for more other things than willpower.

Humans are also good, since they aren't spending any points on race, which they can then put back into other skills and such.

Lets see, my suggestion to the OP is to either go with a logic or charisma tradition, and then going with either human or elf respectively. If going with logic, either grab some logic boosting ware in chargen, or save for it once game starts because you won't have many other expenses. Either way, strongly consider giving up a point of essence for things like PuSHeD and a nanohive (In a cyberfoot/hand) with neocortical nanites. MathSPU also works, as does Encephalon, though the later might cost too much essence until you can hoard up for delta or beta grade ware.

One important thing to remember is that CFs are painfully expensive outside of chargen, so try and max out as many as you can in CG.

As someone else mentioned, decompiling is fairly useless.
Compiling is more useful than registering. Hacking is more useful than computer, hardware is fairly useless, EW is only somewhat useful.
Cybercombat usefulness depends somewhat on playstyle. If you're good at not getting noticed, it is less important, but it is always good to at least have.

[Sengir]

Yeah, but it cost you BP to get ork, so even though it doesn't infringe on your 200 stat cap, it does infringe on your 400 total cap. And 99.99% of the time, a TM isn't going to be worried about their strength. And about 80+% of the time, not going to be too worried about body either, so those are largely wasted points.

Personally, I consider characters with a 1 attribute handicapped and those with more than one as cripples. Whether you are playing an expert for inter-corporate black ops or just a lowly ganger, being frail/obese, clumsy like a drunk whale or suffering from muscle anthropy really sucks. If somebody like this runs the shadows, he should better make it the center of his character concept.

[SleepIncarnate]

Who said take 1 in an attribute? Here, let me give an example of a TM I've used for some of the games here on the forums that never quite got off the ground. She's an elf, and in the original game we were allowed up to 2 submersion/initiations, which I happily took. If that weren't there, I'd have one less Resonance, and maybe an extra point in edge to counter it, also maybe take a lower charisma if she weren't intended to also be the face.

Attributes (260 BP):
Body 3/6
Agility 2/7
Reaction 2/6
Strength 2/6
Charisma 7/8
Intuition 5/6
Logic 5/6
Willpower 5/6
Edge 2/6
Resonance 6/8

As you can see, she's not handicapped or crippled, but physically she's nothing special, about or just below average in most areas, your standard computer geek. Sure, I could have bought up some extra agility or reaction at the cost of that 6th resonance and/or some charisma, but that all goes back again to how you want to play the character. This character was built to be a face in meatspace, and a VR hacker the rest of the time, with both grades of Overclocking.

[Yerameyahu]

It's certainly a personal thing, but I have no interest in playing a quadriplegic Full-Immersion hack-from-Advanced-Lifestyle lair character (no, SleepIncarnate, I'm not describing your example (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) ). There's nothing wrong with that, I'd just rather (take Ork and) be right there at the action. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) There's nothing wrong with in-between, either: 'skinny hacker'. I'm just saying that I can really understand Sengir's perspective.

[SleepIncarnate]

As I said, it's all personal and based on what route you want to take with the character. I've had TMs with 5 in all mentals and then take a few points in agility and reaction so they can help in the fighting. This character specifically was more the "throw a machine sprite in a very impressive doberman drone and let it do the fighting" type. And a rating 6 machine sprite with LMG bursts is a very handy damage dealer. Won't compete with a dedicated sammy, especially not in the area of taking damage, but still a great help while the TM is behind cover trying to hack the local systems to help fight the enemies, or is hacking the enemies nodes to take out their tacnet or smartlink or whatever. The point is that TMs, at least starting out, don't have the option of filling every Matrix role AND being badass in combat like a mundane hacker can, TMs pretty much have to hyperspecialize at creation.

[Udoshi]

So you can't thread it any more than your System rating.

Not System, Resonance. LA stats are capped at Resonance. The System limit is for tech-deckers. Threaded complex forms are capped at 2x resonance.

Natural Hardening
Something about a character's neural structure makes him resistnat to feedback. This quality gives teh character 1 point of natural biofeedback filtering, which is cumulative wiht a biofeedback filter program or complex form (see p. 233)

Biofeedback filters are software routines that monitor simsense signals and filter harmful feedback. Hackers specifically use biofeedback filters as a defense against black hammer and blackout programs in cyber-combat(p236) and against dumpshock(p237). Technomancers have an inherent biofeedback filter complex form equal to their charisma, and so cannot take this as a complex form.

So yes. TM's do have a Biofeedback filter CF. Its just 'special' and part of their living avatar stats. You can't buy it seperately, nor can you buy it up with karma, but you can increase it with threading or sprite assistance. I always thought it was stupid that a TM has to spend 20-65 BP on charisma 6, where a hacker just spends 1bp and never looks back. For people who live out their entire lives on the matrix, and are supposed to be *better* than regular users, i just find that silly. So... here's why they're better! TM's can increase it as they need to, at the risk of suffering drain.

[Sengir]

Not System, Resonance. LA stats are capped at Resonance. The System limit is for tech-deckers. Threaded complex forms are capped at 2x resonance.

Last time I checked, "not X any more than Y" meant "Y is impossible and X is equally impossible" (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

For people who live out their entire lives on the matrix, and are supposed to be *better* than regular users, i just find that silly. So... here's why they're better! TM's can increase it as they need to, at the risk of suffering drain.

Technos are always connected to the matrix with no piece of technology or even a simple electric fuse in between, this gives them their power but also means they risk their brains...power doesn't come free. Yep, the Charisma requirement is annoying, also because it is at odds with a lot of the typical Otaku builds. But IMO the vulnerability to biofeedback is simply part of being a TM. And you can always thread up your Shield CF


@SI: Karoline said that 20 BP in physical stats just infringing on the 400BP cap and are "largely wasted points", I understood that as advice to leave those stats at 1.

God, I HATE qwerty keyboards...

[Marcus]

It really comes down to how your player plans to get things done. Given that hacking is usually not the primary focus of many runs, I recommend starting out being really good at making sprites, as being the most cost effective way of making a TM. You can then use the rest of the points to build someone who's generally good at other stuff as well, (Shooting, Talking, Driving, or droning as you like). Yes it limits you to just using sprites for the majority of hacking starting but saves a LOT of points, and means the character won't suck at everything else. A decent rating sprite is generally good enough to get the job done. This methods allows the player to build towards what they like and take best advantage of the cool submersion powers.

[Udoshi]

Last time I checked, "not X any more than Y" meant "Y is impossible and X is equally impossible" (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Then how do you explain threaded complex forms being able to go to twice resonance, when complex forms are limited to just resonance?

Spoilers: Because it says so.

Otherwise your arguement would prevent any technomancer from raising their complex forms with threading at all. Threading specificlaly imposes a higher cap on the rating than would normally be possible. It doesn't remove it completely, because that would be silly, but it does raise the ceiling from what it was before. Normally ALL complex forms, not just living avatar stats, can't go higher than your Resonance.

[Yerameyahu]

Oy. He meant that 'you can't thread up your Biofeedback Filter, in the same way as you can't thread up your System'. Jesus.

It doesn't matter, because your earlier comments make it clear that you disagree anyway. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Udoshi]

Thats because System isn't a complex form. Biofeedback filter IS, and it says so in several places. Just because its part of your living avatar doesn't mean it isn't also a complex form. It can be both at once. I don't see a problem with it being the bisexual complex form, in that it goes both ways. Its certainly not overpowered.

[Yerameyahu]

Right. You already said that. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) I was just trying to get you to stop arguing with things he *didn't* say, because you already argued with what he *did* say.

[Karoline]

@SI: Karoline said that 20 BP in physical stats just infringing on the 400BP cap and are "largely wasted points", I understood that as advice to leave those stats at 1.

No, my point was that the points weren't 'free' since you still have to pay for race and that the 400 BP total cap is more important than the 200 BP stat cap. Basically all taking Ork does for you is make you spend your BP on race instead of on stats. And personally, for a character that lives and dies on mental stats, taking a race that lowers your maximum mental stats seems like a shot in the foot. Granted, Ork isn't too bad, as it only lowers two mental stats by 1 and gives you more than you put into it for stats. Looking at Orks a bit closer, they're actually crazy good from a stat standpoint. I'm surprised I don't see more of them in play.

Actually, looking back, part of the problem was that I forgot how big the boosts were. From the original statement I was thinking it was +2 bod and +1 str, not 3 and 2.

[Sengir]

Oy. He meant that 'you can't thread up your Biofeedback Filter, in the same way as you can't thread up your System'. Jesus.

This. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

And Udoshi, if you want to do rules lawyering, please be consistent: System represents the device's OS, and there is not a single line saying "you can't thread an OS". Going further down that route, agents and autosofts only cannot be learned by TMs, that means I can thread them at will, right?

@Karoline: Sure the lower mental stats hurt sometimes, otherwise it would be too easy...and I'd have to play a troll TM to buck the trend (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Marcus]

Come on guys. Enough get on topic, or at least argue about something interesting.
I mean we haven't even discussed the (IMG:style_emoticons/default/love.gif) awesomeness (IMG:style_emoticons/default/love.gif) of my Sprite only theory of TM for Great Justice! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rotfl.gif)

[PresentPresence]

I wish one could be an Aspected Technomancer...

[Karoline]

Come on guys. Enough get on topic, or at least argue about something interesting.
I mean we haven't even discussed the (IMG:style_emoticons/default/love.gif) awesomeness (IMG:style_emoticons/default/love.gif) of my Sprite only theory of TM for Great Justice! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rotfl.gif)

I think a discussion on what races make decent TMs is quite on topic when the topic is what makes a decent TM.

As for sprite theory, it isn't all that great really. Sprites are nice, but I get the feeling that people way overvalue them from all that I've read on the forums.