Invoking an Ally Spirit, Is this even possible? Options

[Raiki]

Okay, so I'm going to be playing a voodoo magician in an upcoming game. Since my character will be starting quite a while after the official start of the campaign, and with a significant chunk of karma (I'm GMing the fist half) I was planning on making an Ally Spirit. I'm going to be very spirit-focused, so I'm also picking up the Invoking metamagic.

So here are my questions:

1: Can an ally spirit even BE invoked? I've searched the rules for allies, and I've searched the rules for invoking, but all I can find is a blurb on page 57 of SM saying "Note that only bound spirits may be invoked; Watcher spirits cannot be great form."

2: Assuming that an ally CAN be invoked, what would its great form power be? As far as I know, ally spirits don't have a spirit type. A close reading of the powers section of the ally creation section of SM, page 104, would imply that it could be selected from any power a spirit I could summon would have. This seems a bit overpowered, though.

3: On a different but related topic, since my ally spirit would be a possession spirit (Voodoo), would I need to have a vessel prepared for use during the initial binding ritual for the ally spirit as an inhabitation spirit would? Or would the spirit just manifest on the astral realm and function like any other summoned and bound possession spirit?


Any help would be appreciated. Quotes or page numbers would be fantastic, but I understand that this is a grey area that may not have any RAW to back it up, so a Dumpshock consensus would be more than enough for me.



~R~

[Yerameyahu]

Presumably, no, as your research has implied.

[Udoshi]

Actually, you can invoke ally spirits.

You can invoke anything you can Bind. (An interesting quirk of Invoking is that free spirits can be Invoked - if they find a mortal mage they trust enough to see their spirit formula.)
Ally spirits can be rebound to add powers and update their abilities.
Ally spirits are created through normally Summoning rules, then bound as normal, THEN you pay the karma cost.

Thus, ally spirits can be Bound. Therefore, you can invoke them.

However, Invoked Ally spirits don't get a great form power. They do, however, get all the other bonuses according to the Invoking table, such as reach or increased stats.
Debatable possible common sense ruling: Since ally spirits count as a spirit of all categories for spirit services such as aid spellcasting, then they should count as all spirits of the appropriate tradition, and just pick one great form power from the list available. (getting ALL of them with unlimited services is just silly)

[Raiki]

Thus, ally spirits can be Bound. Therefore, you can invoke them.

That's kind of the logic I was seeing too. The only requirements I found were: Spirit=bound, Spirit/=watcher. Ally spirits meet both of the qualifications...so logically speaking, it should be possible.

However, Invoked Ally spirits don't get a great form power. They do, however, get all the other bonuses according to the Invoking table, such as reach or increased stats.
Debatable possible common sense ruling: Since ally spirits count as a spirit of all categories for spirit services such as aid spellcasting, then they should count as all spirits of the appropriate tradition, and just pick one great form power from the list available. (getting ALL of them with unlimited services is just silly)

Well, my ally would be a possession spirit, so no reach bonus there, though the improved stats would be nice if I could get enough successes.

As far as getting every one of the great form powers, if I tried to pull that, I think my GM would just rip up my character sheet. Come to think of it, if I tried to pull that, I think I might rip up my sheet. One does seem to make sense, though honestly I think I would be more likely (were I GMing) to make the character classify his ally as being of a specific spirit type. Mechanically, it would be pretty much the same, but it would make the player add a few more thematic elements to the mix of skills, powers, and GF power that is the spirit.



~R~

[Neraph]

Well... If your possessing spirit has reach, would not the vessel gain the reach?

And on the topic of Great Form Powers, the FAQ says you can't give GFP to Ally Spirits (the acronym I was going to use didn't work... Ally SpiritS).

[Yerameyahu]

Do they simply stay Invoked forever? That seems problematic, even without mentioning Great Form powers.

[Neraph]

How would that be problematic?

[Yerameyahu]

I forgot who I was talking to. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Neraph]

Hehehehe. It's interesting how radically different I see the "power scale" of this game from other people.

[Udoshi]

Do they simply stay Invoked forever? That seems problematic, even without mentioning Great Form powers.

Yep. Great Form spirits are -mean-. The quest to become a great form spirit is a compelling reason for free spirits to seek our mortal magi for a night of fun with some laes.
It also means that, from now on, this spirit now increases binding drain by 50% permanently if you want to continue using it. Hope you're on good terms with it.


Yeah, great forming spirits is a one-time thing. The benefits stick, but so does the downside.

[Yerameyahu]

But we're talking about an Ally spirit. It's already *yours*. I'm not worried about spirits that are just going to up and leave the next day.

[Neraph]

Wait, it doesn't actually say that you can only Invoke a spirit once, does it? I like the idea of a +40 Reach Great Form Earth Spirit.

Also, speaking of laes, since spirits aren't immune to drugs/toxins, would hitting a spirit that was just ordered to do something with a dose of Pixie Dust make it forget its order?

[Yerameyahu]

Not that again. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Udoshi]

Also, speaking of laes, since spirits aren't immune to drugs/toxins, would hitting a spirit that was just ordered to do something with a dose of Pixie Dust make it forget its order?

Actually, I was thinking the laes was for the binding magician. Free spirits don't like to let people have copies of their spirit formulae, and a magician needs it to bind a spirit. Some real trust needed there - or an assurance it wouldn't come back to haunt the spirit in question. Hence, laes.

Just, you know, in general. Not necessarily applicable for an ally spirit.

[Yerameyahu]

HA. Come back to haunt a spirit. ZING.

[Neraph]

I know, but I was using the laes as a springboard to using Pixie Dust Capsule Rounds to defeat enemy spirits in combat by simply making them forget their orders and turning them useless.