Building a cyberterminal Options

[Voran]

I apologize if this has been already covered in another thread, but when I used the 'search' function I couldn't narrow down the keywords to something that didn't either give me 7 pages of topics, or no topics at all :)

The other matrix related threads I read seemed to deal more with the actual running of the matrix, as opposed to the question I'd like to ask.

I also don't have any of the existing decker/matrix related source books, so would appreciate any helpful feedback.

I've been looking over deck costs, either the basic stuff as listed in SR3 rules, or cranial decks from Shadowtech. I was wondering, is the cost of a cyberdeck, especially the MPCP stuff, so expensive because you're paying for easier transportation? Basically cramming all that stuff into the size of a large real-life keyboard?

I know 'turtle' terminals have low level limits on MPCP, like 4 or something, but is it possible to build a fairlight excalibur quality terminal that wouldn't be portable, but for far less? How much less?

Generally speaking I could see the need for runners/deckers to keep portable decks just cause they tend to do alot of hot decking from unsecure, hazardous areas. But if you're a government decker, working from an office in the pentagon or something, you wouldn't necessarially have to worry about corp security or lone star breaking down your door, right? So you wouldn't have to be as mobile.

That also being said, if you weren't restricted by size when creating your deck (or mainframe or whatever), are you able to add things like buffers that help versus black IC or such? How much hardening could you add to a non-mobile station?

[Cray74]

The Matrix book puts an interesting spin on cyberterminals. IIRC, the MPCP limit of 4 is a matter of legalities, not engineering.

Further, IIRC, the feature that separates cyberdecks from cyberterminals is whether the computer has a Masking persona program. Also, "hot" ASIST interfaces tend to be limited to cyberdecks, but that's a secondary issue. I think cyberterminals can be pure DNI.

So you build a cyberterminal like a cyberdeck, but skip on the Masking chip/program. You almost always skip the Evasion program/chip. ("Oh, right, sure you needed a Rating 4 Evasion persona program to avoid detection by pop-up ad software. I do that on my home 'terminal with a rating-2 utility. No, don't shove that license in my face, it's only good in the PCC. Cuff'em, boys.")

As I recall, your real savings are from the low ratings of the hardware, not anything particular to cyberterminals. The prices of Persona chips involves a square function (Rating x Rating x Some Nuyen), so sticking to a maximum rating of 4 results in a pretty cheap computer. There's no impact on cost from the size of the terminal/deck - you could build a desktop-sized terminal and it would cost the same as a keyboard-sized deck.

[Fahr]

which makes sense from a manufactureing standpoint, why make bigger cheaper chips to undercut your own market? always makethem faster and smaller so that they have to buy that or nothing.

-Mike R.

[Frag-o Delux]

Is there still breadboarding decks in the Matrix rules? I seem to remember they were cheaper but a lot bigger then astandard runners deck.

[Cray74]

[Suriyel]

One question, focuses more on the the custom cyberdeck rules from Matrix, how do you calculate the availability of one? I've looked through the section a few times, and in the charts in the back, but I cannot find how to calculate it.

[Limping Jacob]

So if the max MPCP rating of 4 for turtles is just a legal rather than technical issue, you could have a turtle with higher MPCP ratings, right?

Also, maybe a house rule for cutting the cost of larger terminals would make sense, even if the book's rules don't cover it. Things are generally cheaper if you sacrifice portability, so it would only make sense to make your non-portable cyberterminal/cyberdeck cheaper. Maybe dividing cost by a number based on mass/volume or something?

[Cray74]

[Cain]

AFAIK, Breadboarding has been removed from SR3/Matrix rules. It used to provide a 50% discount on the overall cost, so long as you were willing to lug a full-sized PC box around. (I got a lot of mileage out of that rule with my decker/rigger combo, though.)

[Abstruse]

Cyberterminals are "legal" cyberdecks. They're what any legit user of the Matrix uses, from the kid up the street playing Duke Nukem Forever (It should be out by 2064...maybe...) to the wageslave punching code to the corp decker who booted you out of the Lone Star system last week. A cyberterminal can and usually does have all the bells and whistles of a cyberdeck with the exception of Masking. Does the kid up the street have Evasion and a hot ASSIST? Hell no, both those are illegal. However, that wageslave might have a hot ASSIST, and that corp decker sure as hell does as well as Evasion. Most "combat" cyberterminals come equpped with a specific type of "Masking" that only works on other systems. IE The Lone Star decker leaves a datatrail as plain as day for anything he does on the Lone Star systems, but when he's hacking into the Ares mainframe to find out if that shipment of assault rifles that "fell off the back of the truck" are the ones that ended up in the hands of the Mafioso, he's Masking as well as any other decker.

Tortoises, however, have NO ASSIST interface. You put on VR goggles or use a screen to look at a half-ass representation of the Matrix as you navigate. You're slow as hell and can't do anything useful, but you can do most things your average good corporate citizen can do (Access UOL chatrooms, read the NewsNet, "read the articles" on Playboy's host, etc.). They are not deck and they are not cyberterminals. And they're about as powerful as the PC you're reading these words on. Well, not really, but it gives you a good idea.

Breadboarding (non-portable cyberdecks) were an optional rule in Virtual Realities 2.0 for SR2 on p.90 that reduced the cost of the custom deck by 50% and reduced the target numbers for all the cook tests by 2. I'd seriously think about re-introducing this into an SR3 game, though, because it means that your starting decker can buy an Excalibre after only a month or two. They're only stuck decking from home. Big time balance issue, unless you throw a whole bunch of "and the file is located on an isolated system not connected to the Matrix..." runs at them, which itself is just a copout to the balance issue in the first place...

The Abstruse One

[Voran]

[Firewall]

[hobgoblin]

a cyberterm only needs a mpcp (what dont?) and a body and sensor chip + a cold asist. evasion require a licence. if you want it then you better be able to show why. masking is totaly no no as you dont need it unless your trying to sneak into hosts where you are not allowed to be.

a cold asist dont have the signal strength to allow pure dni. for that you need hot asist. problem is that hot asist is just 0,x below a btl on signal strength (in fact it seems to be so high that a power surge can bring it over the top). the cool thing about a cold asist tho is that it makes lethal black ice into nonleathla ones. oh and hot asist can allso be run as cold, and both hot and cold can be run as a tortise.

breadboarding is still around kinda, its called hardwireing now.

in sr, unlike our life, a phone is allways on (its just another "ip" based device that is mostly idleing). same deal with many other systems. and isolating systems can create problems. letsa say you have a r&d depertment in seattle that need to cooperate with one in hong kong. nowa isolated system becomes a problem. you have diffrent solutions tho. you cna set up a chokepoint with a crasy load of ice on it (red-hard, or glacier if you want) or you can set up a vanishing san (system access node i think, trowback to pre vr2). all this is described in matrix under system tricks. there you will find virtual machines, vanishing sans and bouncers. all designed to make a deckers life harder. remeber that a normal users that stays within this boundary will not see any of this, mutch like a normal internet users dont know about all the routers nad firewalls out there that block some access while allowing other traffic past.

[Abstruse]

You tend to forget extraterritoriality. That evasion chip is perfectly legal for the corp to own and to give to any employee it feels like. Same with masking and hot assist and all that. The corp makes the laws on its home terf.

The Abstruse One

[Frag-o Delux]

But corps will not give that stuff to their average employee, they wouldn't want Joe Salaryman snooping around their net loing for a pay day or trying to give himself that much desired raise. Even their deckers don't normally get Masking for that reason. That is why Fuchi made the masking s=chip that turns it self off when on certin networks, like Fuchis. But they have become a pretty normal operation for Megas to mod the masking chips of their deckers.

[Zazen]

[Firewall]

I know it is not perfect but it is one example of a security system. The current game I am playing on Sundays, we are in a house with no matrix access and each floor's security is isolated from the others. Being the decker in the group, I am having to shut down security as I go along. But it is the most perfect security in some ways. I just cannot access the security systems without getting onto each floor.

[Abstruse]

It'd also be damned expensive security too. Look at the costs for an Excalibre and think that's the equlivilent of a top-of-the-line HOME system. Now think of how much a friggin' MAINFRAME would cost, because you'd need that much processing power to run anything you'd use ASSIST on. Sure, they'd be specialized servers, but servers nonetheless. A different one on each floor would just be insane.

BTW, I mentioned s-chips in my earlier rant, as well as the fact that Joe Wageslave wouldn't have Evasion or Masking. However, corps would give at least some of their deckers true Masking chips, because a lot of times the deckers need to hack their own systems. Like say Novatech wants to make sure the Senior VP of IrrelaCorp (a Novatech subsidiary) isn't skimming from the top by having one of their deckers crack into the system and snag the personel and finance files, then passing them along to their datacrunchers. Or maybe it's in-house fighting like was going on in Fuchi for YEARS before the break-up.

The Abstruse One

[hobgoblin]

damn, i seem to recall a quote talking about a pricetag for hosts in the 6 million and up range but i cant recall where it was from...

[CircuitBoyBlue]

I know nothing of 3rd ed., but in 1st, the rule was 10% cost for a cyberterminal. The trick is, though, that it was strictly tortoise. In our group, which is big on house rules and bending things around a LOT, there is a decker that got a Fuchi cyber-7t (the terminal version), and gave it the necessary datajack ports (what is now known as "hot ASIST"). Since then, he's done a lot of mods on the deck, most notably level 2 response increase, and he intends to eventually have the equivalent of an Excalibur. Of course, he's already spent about a year on it, and the MPCP upgrade alone will take something like 3, if I recall correctly. Anyway, our group is crazy, and we play 2nd ed. with 1st ed. matrix rules, and then we house rule it to all hell, doing things the book specifically says you can't do (e.g., whip up wireless connections). But to answer the original question in the thread, yes, 1st and 2nd editions let you buy a terminal for 10% of the cost of an equivalent deck. However, you miss out on the hot ASIST for some reason I've never been able to fathom (to me it would make more sense to charge something like 60% and keep the ASIST). Someone brought up an interesting point that it makes sense for the corps to only produce smaller, faster machines, but that said, we're talking about what YOU are trying to make. How much that is restricted by the parts that the corps make is open to group interpretation. Building decks is one area I don't think SR will ever be able to get completely right. God bless them, they try really hard, but the more complex and detailed they get, the more ideas people have about what else they want to do. And then you end up with a game like mine, which other SR fans couldn't really jump into and know exactly what's going on. Oh, well. Good luck with that one. I hope my knowledge of 1st and 2nd ed. was able to help you out a little bit.