New Spell Concept: Vorpal Sword, Seeking opinions on the spell Options

[Raven the Tricks...]

Vorpal Sword

Type: Physical Manipulation, Duration: Sustained, Damage: Physical, Range: Touch, Drain: (Force/2)+2
Effect: This spell may be used by the caster, or to empower someone within his reach. It creates a glowing sword made of pure mana. Treat it as though it was a bladed weapon (DV: (Magic/2 round up) + Spellcasting Hits, AP: - Charisma/2 round down, Reach: 1) and use the appropriate skill tests to attack, parry or defend against. Unlike a normal sword, this weapon is not powered by the strength of it's wielder's muscles, but rather by the power of it's caster's magic. It thus does not gain additional damage based on strength as most melee weapons would, however it does still gain the usual net hits to damage from the melee combat test. The damage from the sword is entirely magic based and thus bypasses Immunity to Normal Weapons. Counterspelling my be added to the defender's resistance dice pool. A +2 reach version my be cast by adding another 2 points to the drain value of this spell.

This spell was likely originally created by either a Norse or Japanese tradition mystic adept, or just a mage with a penchant for sword fighting, but has likely since spread and gained it's current name along the way.

[Edit] Updated to reflect the fact that the sword glows.

[Yerameyahu]

Why Charisma?

Is the Vorpal Longsword a separate spell (should be)?

[Raven the Tricks...]

Why Charisma?

Honestly, posting for my GM and it's his spell, but my guess would be that the traditions I mentioned are both charisma based
[Edit] I think at one point I may have suggested that it should be drain stat rather than Charisma, but that hasn't been incorporated at this time.

Is the Vorpal Longsword a separate spell (should be)?

Good question, I would say it should be, I didn't catch that in my editing and formatting when I posted it. (Also, more likely vorpal greatsword)

[Zyerne]

Why Charisma?

An Elf did it.

Using Willpower would make it more universally useful but Norse and Shinto are indeed Charisma traditions.

[Yerameyahu]

Now for the numbers. It seems like this could easily be abused. A quick overcast and you've got a lightsaber. Granted, the lack of Str brings things down *compared to a troll*, but it's still a fair bit. Hmm. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Nifft]

Now for the numbers. It seems like this could easily be abused. A quick overcast and you've got a lightsaber.

Overcasting does nothing. The damage is based only on your Magic and your Charisma. This spell will only ever be cast at Force 1.

Oh, never mind. Net hits do add to damage. So potentially Force PLUS (Magic/2) for damage. That's a bit high, given that you could blow Edge on this one roll to make all your future attacks awesome.

[Yerameyahu]

Good point, though: is it too strong at Force 1? Better than many blades at Str 4-ish. At first blush, it looks pretty okay, but always consider the edges. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Maybe it should glow and/or hum, and so be very hard to conceal? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Zyerne]

Why Magic for DV when everything else is Force based?

[Raven the Tricks...]

Why Charisma?

Official word from my GM is that it's due to the fact that in astral combat Charisma = Strength. Personally though I say the flavour works as well.

Overcasting does nothing. The damage is based only on your Magic and your Charisma. This spell will only ever be cast at Force 1.

Oh, never mind. Net hits do add to damage. So potentially Force PLUS (Magic/2) for damage. That's a bit high, given that you could blow Edge on this one roll to make all your future attacks awesome.

That is a good point that I hadn't been considered, however even then I've run the numbers and even at force 6 it at best matches what a physical adept can do. At higher force you get into the same problem that all combat and combat related spells deal with. Remember, even using edge you're limited to the force of the spell for hits.

[Raven the Tricks...]

Good point, though: is it too strong at Force 1? Better than many blades at Str 4-ish. At first blush, it looks pretty okay, but always consider the edges. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Maybe it should glow and/or hum, and so be very hard to conceal? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

I meant to bring that up with my GM, personally in my head when I see the spell it glows, although I don't know if he's decided that. I'll ask him later. As far as the low edge of it goes, at force 1 it's damage is only equal to a knife although with better ap than anything short of a monowhip, and potentially even matching that for an elf.

Why Magic for DV when everything else is Force based?

Could have gone with force, but wanted something that's a bit more fixed. At force for DV this could very quickly (as Yerameyahu put it earlier) turn into a lightsaber.

[tagz]

For balance purposes I recommend making the additional damage a threshold (similar to Improve Reflexes) rather then modify with straight hits.

Example:
1 hit : DV = MAG/2, AP = CHA/2
2 hits : DV = MAG/2 +1, AP = CHA/2
3 hits : DV = MAG/2 +2, AP = CHA/2
4 hits : DV = MAG/2 +3, AP = CHA/2
5 hits : DV = MAG/2 +4, AP = CHA/2
--- no additional benefits for more then 5 hits


or alternatively you could do something else, like increase the AP or go additional hit levels

1 hit : DV = MAG/2, AP = CHA/2
2 hits : DV = MAG/2 +1, AP = CHA/2
3 hits : DV = MAG/2 +1, AP = CHA/2 +1
4 hits : DV = MAG/2 +2, AP = CHA/2 +1
5 hits : DV = MAG/2 +2, AP = CHA/2 +2
...
8 hits : DV = MAG/2 +4, AP = CHA/2 +3

Just my opinion, but it would prevent world-ender blades.

[Raven the Tricks...]

Good point, though: is it too strong at Force 1? Better than many blades at Str 4-ish. At first blush, it looks pretty okay, but always consider the edges. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Maybe it should glow and/or hum, and so be very hard to conceal? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Confirmed from the GM, the sword glows. I'll update the description next.

Also, this spell is strongly based on the [Element] Aura spell from Street magic (p. 173) with a few tweaks and flavour. Damage boost equal to hits is identical to that.

[Edit] With that said, I'll admit high force with high hits spells could turn this into a world ender blade, but no more so than they turn an already raw spell into an almighty conflagration (or whatever elemental effect floats your boat)

[Neraph]

Why not have a thematically-changed Elemental Aura spell? Or heck, say the spirits you summon materialize as different weapons. I was in the process of writing up a post based on that...

[Raven the Tricks...]

Why not have a thematically-changed Elemental Aura spell? Or heck, say the spirits you summon materialize as different weapons. I was in the process of writing up a post based on that...

To the first, because this has even more effect against a spirit, and beyond that is designed for a low strength mage to have some hope in melee combat provided they have a blades skill.

To the second... umm... oh yeah, because that would take a very specific tradition whereas the spell allows for broader use.

[Bombastic 451]

Hello, I'm the guy Raven the Trickster was posting Vorpal Sword for. The original concept for this spell was that a magically endowed character (most likely a mystic adept) could will his mana into an item that he would then wield against a supernatural enemy in direct combat. I'll admit that this spell could be amped to ridiculous levels, but their are other factors to consider. First of all, the caster would have to be in physical reach of his opponent. This spell can do very little against a mage standing on a ledge hurtling ranged spells at you, or a spirit floating in the air doing the same. When you are in reach, you'd still need to make a successful melee attack, this would be made more difficult do to the -2 for maintaining the spell. You could then use a focus or spirit to sustain it for you, but neither would be cheep and you might find the spells force limited by your focus or spirit. And then there's the drain. If you spend to much on your force, the drain could then add more negative modifiers to your melee attack. One thing I was considering was to raise the drain some more to deter heavy casting. I was also contemplating adding a threshold for the spell, but wasn't sure on what it should be.

[Zyerne]

Monafilament whip was always the traditional mage weapon

[Bombastic 451]

This spell is meant primarily against things with Immunity Against Natural Weapons. It would also inflict long term damage that could otherwise be healed by the regeneration critter power. Plus, I still think Glowy Magic Sword is cooler.

This post has been edited by Bombastic 451: Nov 10 2010, 05:32 AM

[Zyerne]

Cooler, yes, but wouldn't a weapon focus monowhip fix the immunity and regen problems?

[Raven the Tricks...]

Yeah, but the suggested glitch or more importantly critical glitch effects of a monowhip work against it in comparison to this.

[Bombastic 451]

A focus can be taken away from you, and this spell could be made available to a Free Spirit as well, unlike a focus. Though I'm not sure if that's a pro for or con against the idea.

[Yerameyahu]

On the one hand, this is different from [Element] Aura: no element. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Elements are pretty handy, so that's a nice step *down*. On the other side, you're adding a little reach and AP (less than an Element, though). Seem fair-ish. I do like the Increased Reflexes-style idea, though.

[Bombastic 451]

I liked the enhanced reflex suggestion as well. The spells still young, and I'm just putting it out there because I think it's cool. I'm happy right now just to take as many suggestions for improving it as I can get.

This post has been edited by Bombastic 451: Nov 10 2010, 05:53 AM

[Yerameyahu]

Also, I know I've seen this exact concept here in the last few months. Try a search for the thread; no doubt there were useful ideas in it.

Nevermind, I went and found it for you. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?showtopic=31273

[Bombastic 451]

Thanks, I tried looking for the other spell like this one, but didn't have any luck. I'm logging off now, but wanted to add one more thing. My favorite part of this spell is also one of my greatest concerns. This spell is at it's most powerful, and thus it's most likely point to OP when used with team work. Instead of using the spell himself, the caster could use it to endow the weapon onto a buddy who we could say is an adapt with mad physical attributes and serious blade skills. The spell could also be over-casted and edge added to max out the spell-casting roll. As long as the caster can sustain the spell the swordsman could become neigh unstoppable.

This post has been edited by Bombastic 451: Nov 10 2010, 07:01 AM

[Yerameyahu]

Well, disallow casting it on other people. Done. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)