SURGE-III - Trying to build a good character Options

[John Kilroc]

So, I've been lurking around here for some time, absorbing info like a tyranid absorbs material matter.

Using all I've picked up here, I tried to build some characters purely for entertainment, but I always come to the point of not knowing what to do or take next, what to raise, and I seem to always forget essentials.
So, for a campaign that might be upcoming, I'm trying to put together a SURGE-III furry-character.
She should be able to sneak around, hold her own in combat and not be totally useless outside of it - though I haven't yet found the role I'd want her to fulfill.
I was thinking of going adept with one or two pistols or MPs, taking some martial arts (Firefight, most likely) und unarmed combat. I'm not opposed to going cyber&bio, though I'd prefer her to be an adept (mostly becauce I haven't played one yet).

[ Spoiler ]

Human

Attributes:
BOD 3
AGI 5
REA 5
STR 3
CHA 2
INT 4
LOG 3
WIL 3

Edge 4
Magic 4

Pos. Qualities: (only 30 BP here - 5 are free for maybe Restricted Gear or Erased...)
SURGE III - 15 BP [Pos. Qualities: Balance Receptor, Functional Tail: Balance, Keen Eared, Low-Light Vision, Ogre Stomach, Thermographic Vision; Neg. Qualities: Extravagant Eyes, Nocturnal)
Martials Arts: Firefight (Attacker in Melee 1) - 5 BP
Adept - 5 BP
Ambidextrous - 5 BP

Neg. Qualities:
Amnesia 1 - 10 BP
Records on File - 10 BP
Prejudiced 2 - 10 BP
Dark Secret - 5 BP

Active Skills:
Influence group 2
Infiltration 3
Shadowing 2
Palming 2
Automatics 3 (+ specialization... this could be swapped out for Pistols)
Unarmed Combat 3
Climbing 2
Gymnastics 3 (for the Gymnastics Dodge)
Navigation 2
Running 1
Survival 1
Tracking 2
Pilot Ground Craft 2 (+2 wheeled)
First Aid 1

Contacts:
Fixer L2 C3
Street Doc L3 C2

Adept Powers:
Improved Reflexes 2
Combat Sense 1
Mystic Armor 1

Cyber- & Bioware:
None as of yet

Equipment:
The usual stuff - fake SINs and licenses, armor, googles and earbuds... and of course the weapons of choice, though I'm not sure what to take.

That's 384 BP.

1.) Which weapons are recommended? I've thought about two Ares Predators and goind Pistols, though I'd rather not shoot Akimbo... Ceska Black Scorpion, Ingram Smartgun or Uzi IV maybe, shooting one burst in each IP and havng more bullets because of ambidexterity? How about dropping ambidexterity, thereby freeing up 5 BP and using only 5 gun?
2.) Which way to cyber & bio up? I've read that using these is recommended even with adepts and I'm ok with some. I guess it won't end up with a cyber zombie, due to the penatly on magic.. speaking of which, what about raising it to 5?
3.) What skills to pick up or to drop? As I said, I'd really like her to have something to do outside of combat, but I'm t a complete loss as to what this could be, considering her attributes. Maye chrome could help out...?

Any help with optimizing this character is greatly appreciacted, because I really like the concept and would like to get more out of it.

Thank you!

[Makki]

well, my first opinion:
-lowlight and thermographic in contact lenses cost just a few nuyen instead of 10 BP. Maybe get Dermal Deposits or Bark Skin or Nasty Vibe (see below)
-your martial art costs 1BP more than another point in your weapons skill and gives you 100 times less in return
-go for Intimidation outside of combat, since Freaks get +2 Bonus

[klinktastic]

For 'wares:

Synthacardium 3 = +3 gymnastics dice to dodging
Muscle Toners 2 (or 4 if you want to use Restricted Gear) = +2/+4 dice to a lot of skills
Attention Co-Processors 3 = +3 dice to all physical perception tests
2 Reflex Recorders (Gymnastics, 1 Firearm Skill) = +1 dice to dodge & +1 dice to hit


For Adept powers:

Combat sense should be Improved Physical Skill: Gymnasics 2 = +2 dodge dice, instead of one for .5 PPs.
I like enhanced perception 2 instead of Mystic Armor, since with the above recommendations, you have +5 dice to gynmastics dodging now, you dont need as much armor.

[Zyerne]

One thing I noticed is you've got 28bp tied up in 3 skills from the stealth group. For 2 more, you can get the whole group at 3.

If you decide to go with one gun, consider a partial cyberarm with gyromount, you'll be able to get full RC then if you use the weapon mods from Arsenal

Definately consider putting magic up to 5, cheaper in BP to do it later with karma.

[Fauxknight]

1.) Which weapons are recommended? I've thought about two Ares Predators and goind Pistols, though I'd rather not shoot Akimbo... Ceska Black Scorpion, Ingram Smartgun or Uzi IV maybe, shooting one burst in each IP and havng more bullets because of ambidexterity? How about dropping ambidexterity, thereby freeing up 5 BP and using only 5 gun?

One weapon is generally a lot simpler than dual wielding. Its a complicated subject, both single weapon and two weapon styles are valid, but it comes down to style vs simplicity. Campaign style is also going to dictate a lot of how large of a weapon you can get away with as well as how much punch it needs to pack and at what ranges. Last time I actually made a dual wield character the GM didn't like the way cyberarms worked and I had to rewrite the character (regardless of the fact that the whole campaign was pure cheese, coming from a 3E background the GM didn't feel comfortable with 4E cyberarms actually being usefull). Too bad too, that was the most awesome cowboy cyber-dryad dual-wielding revolvers build ever.

3.) What skills to pick up or to drop? As I said, I'd really like her to have something to do outside of combat, but I'm t a complete loss as to what this could be, considering her attributes. Maye chrome could help out...?

You have Infiltration, Palming, and Shadowing, drop all three for the Stealth group. You have Climbing, Gymnastics, and Running, drop all 3 for the Athletics group.

[John Kilroc]

well, my first opinion:
-lowlight and thermographic in contact lenses cost just a few nuyen instead of 10 BP. Maybe get Dermal Deposits or Bark Skin or Nasty Vibe (see below)
-your martial art costs 1BP more than another point in your weapons skill and gives you 100 times less in return
-go for Intimidation outside of combat, since Freaks get +2 Bonus

Alright, I've dropped MA for weapon skill +1. I really like lowlight & thermo for the fluff, the character being a predatory cat, but yeah... dermal deposits do seem better.
Is there a viable way to use martial arts? I've really enjoyed envisiong the character taking apart the opposition with shots, punches and kicks... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/love.gif)

For 'wares:

Synthacardium 3 = +3 gymnastics dice to dodging
Muscle Toners 2 (or 4 if you want to use Restricted Gear) = +2/+4 dice to a lot of skills
Attention Co-Processors 3 = +3 dice to all physical perception tests
2 Reflex Recorders (Gymnastics, 1 Firearm Skill) = +1 dice to dodge & +1 dice to hit


For Adept powers:

Combat sense should be Improved Physical Skill: Gymnasics 2 = +2 dodge dice, instead of one for .5 PPs.
I like enhanced perception 2 instead of Mystic Armor, since with the above recommendations, you have +5 dice to gynmastics dodging now, you dont need as much armor.

I've added the 'wares - dropping magic by 2. I guess adept powers can only amount to the modified magic, which leaves me with too many powers. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif)
I'll have to tweak the adept aspect, I guess.

One weapon is generally a lot simpler than dual wielding. Its a complicated subject, both single weapon and two weapon styles are valid, but it comes down to style vs simplicity. Campaign style is also going to dictate a lot of how large of a weapon you can get away with as well as how much punch it needs to pack and at what ranges.

Alright, so I'm dropping one firearm, leaving ambidexterity useless, so it's getting dropped too.

You have Infiltration, Palming, and Shadowing, drop all three for the Stealth group. You have Climbing, Gymnastics, and Running, drop all 3 for the Athletics group.

Done, though this leaves me with Infiltration and Gymnastics at 2 instead of 3. Maybe I should up both groups to 3? This would chew through the BP, though... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif)

Since I've already taken the Influence group and receiving the aforementioned +2 bonus in Intimidation, maybe I should drop the adept altogether, going chrome&bio, raise CHA and be the face..?

[ Spoiler ]

Human

Attributes:
BOD 3
AGI 5
REA 5
STR 2
CHA 4
INT 4
LOG 2
WIL 3

Edge 4

Pos. Qualities: (only 30 BP here - 5 are free for maybe Restricted Gear or Erased...)
SURGE III - 15 BP [Pos. Qualities: Balance Receptor, Functional Tail: Balance, Keen Eared, Ogre Stomach, Dermal Deposits; Neg. Qualities: Extravagant Eyes, Nocturnal)

Neg. Qualities:
Amnesia 1 - 10 BP
Records on File - 10 BP
Prejudiced 2 - 10 BP
Dark Secret - 5 BP

Active Skills:
Influence group 2
Stealth group 2
Athletics group 2
Automatics 4 (+ specialization... this could be swapped out for Pistols)
Unarmed Combat 3 (Is this still necessary? Maybe I should switch to blades or something..)
Navigation 1
Survival 1
Tracking 2
Pilot Ground Craft 2 (+2 wheeled)
First Aid 1

Contacts:
Fixer L2 C3
Street Doc L3 C2

Cyber- & Bioware:
Wired Reflexes 2 (alpha)
Attention co-processor 3
Smartlink
Synthacardium 3
Muscle toner 2
Muscle augmentation 2 (in case unarmed & melee combat is still viable - though ambidexterity would then again be quite nice)
Reflex recorder Gymnastics
Reflex recorder Firearms
Enhanced Articulation
Platelet factories (not sure about this)


That's 371 BP.

This build leaves me with some BP to maybe raise another skill or take some positive qualities and, if I counted correctly, 17 dice for firing a machine pistol.
Even though CHA was raised, to the expense of STR and LOG, I don't think I'd have enough dice for Face-related stuff.
I can't help but feeling a little bit lost... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif)

[klinktastic]

Sorry, if you drop one of the reflex recorders, you have .8 essense in bio and .15 in cyber (since it gets halved). That will only drop your magic by one, not two. Then if you have magic at 5, it gets dropped to 4. You'd use 2.5 PPs on Improved Reflex II and have 1.5 PP to spare. Here, I'd do enhanced perception 2 (.5PP), improved skill gymnastics 2 (.5 PP), and improved skill (any non-combat skill) 2 for your last .5 PPs (unless you want quickdraw or something else). Odds are tho, that you can get more mileage out of cyber/bioware than adept powers overall. Just depends on your flavor. Another option, if you want to go more face, drop Improved Reflexes to 1 and use that last PP for kinsetics 2.

Edit - side not, for 5 BPs, you could get restricted gear muscle toners 4, used standard for a little more essense but half the cost (the cost of std muscle toner 2)

[ProfGast]

Alright, I've dropped MA for weapon skill +1. I really like lowlight & thermo for the fluff, the character being a predatory cat, but yeah... dermal deposits do seem better.
Is there a viable way to use martial arts? I've really enjoyed envisiong the character taking apart the opposition with shots, punches and kicks... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/love.gif)

Try taking a Martial Art that gives you bonuses that aren't achievable just from upping your skills. Krav Maga seems to be the style of choice really. Advantages include "Take Aim" as a Free Action, Ready Weapon as a Free Action (the first of which is probably better)

[Zyerne]

John, all the guns you mentioned are, I believe, from the BBB. Do you have Arsenal?

[John Kilroc]

Done taking Krav Maga. I'm at 380 BP now, could take another 5 BP in positive qualities and seem to have every 'ware and item that I absolutely need.

I do have the Arsenal, yes, but the stock weapons seem to be equal to the Ingram Smartgun.

[Zyerne]

My personal opinion is that the BBB has better SMGs, Arsenal the better MPs. Others may disagree..

Anyway, if you up magic to 5, you should be able to get a reasonable set of cyber/bio out of 1 point.

Enhanced articulation isn't really worth it for the limited amount of bonuses.

Camo fur would seem to fit your initial description better than dermal deposits.

[klinktastic]

5 BPs for First Impression? 2 dice to nearly every non recurring NPC is nice to have.

[Fauxknight]

I do have the Arsenal, yes, but the stock weapons seem to be equal to the Ingram Smartgun.

The P93 is probably the best all around SMG, but the Smartgun X is the best bargain basement fully loaded SMG (including its rules defying sound suppressed gas vents). If you're an armorer and can drop a few mods in the HV SMG can be pretty good too.

[Zyerne]

I apply the Arsenal rules to the Ingram, no suppression with the GV on. As such, my SMG of choice is the 227-x with barrel mounted GV3.

P93s big disadvantage is that it's F. I prefer my SMGs licensed.

[John Kilroc]

Alright, I've picked up Adept again, with magic raised to 5(4) and one reflex recorder dropped, but a smartlink added.

[ Spoiler ]

Human

Attributes:
BOD 3
AGI 5
REA 5
STR 2
CHA 3
INT 4
LOG 3
WIL 3

Edge 4
Magic 5(4)

Pos. Qualities: (only 30 BP here - 5 are free for maybe Restricted Gear or Erased...)
SURGE III - 15 BP [Pos. Qualities: Balance Receptor, Functional Tail: Prehensile Tail, Keen Eared, Ogre Stomach, Camo Fur; Neg. Qualities: Extravagant Eyes, Nocturnal)
Martial Arts: Krav Maga (Take Aim as Free Action) - 5 BP
Adept - 5 BP

Neg. Qualities:
Amnesia 1 - 10 BP
Records on File - 10 BP
Prejudiced 2 - 10 BP
Dark Secret - 5 BP

Active Skills:
Influence group 2
Stealth group 2
Athletics group 2
Automatics 4 (+SMG)
Unarmed Combat 1
Pistols 1
Navigation 1
Survival 1
Tracking 1
Pilot Ground Craft 2 (+2 wheeled)
First Aid 1

Contacts:
Fixer L2 C3
Street Doc L3 C2

Cyber- & Bioware:
Attention co-processor 3
Smartlink
Synthacardium 3
Muscle toner 2
Reflex recorder (Firearms or Gymnastics... more defense, more offense... don't know)

Adept Powers:
Improved Reflexes 2
Improved Physical Skill: Gymnastics (Infiltation could be quite an option here, too..)

Equipment:
All that stuff, I guess I'm settling for the Ingram Smartgun X. I'll try to find some other mods for this - taking up Armorer sounds interesting, I admit.

That's 388 BP, or 398 with Armorer 2 (+Firearms), leaving another 10 grand for investments. I have 0,5 points of adept powers unspent - I was thinking about Nimble Fingers, another Improved Physical Skill and Sustenance (does this even grant any real bonus like reduced lifestyle cost? It doesn't say so, but only eating once instead of thrice should have some financial effect, methinks).

Thank you all vor your help, I'm really happy with how she's turning out.

[Fauxknight]

I apply the Arsenal rules to the Ingram, no suppression with the GV on. As such, my SMG of choice is the 227-x with barrel mounted GV3.

Which would make sense, and it would force the Smartgun X to use one or the other at a time which would bring it down the the level of most other SMGs. Still it predates that rule, which may or may not apply only to weapon customizations.

P93s big disadvantage is that it's F. I prefer my SMGs licensed.

Well I prefer the Smartgun X as a disposable unlicensed weapon. I generally avoid the P93 too, but that doesn't remove the fact that its statistically superior to most other SMGs. I took a Colt Cobra as my licensed weapon for a new character thats starts tomorrow, but I was specifically looking for a UCAS security guard weapon when I made that choice, that gun probably won't see much action where as the unmodded, unlicensed, and very cheap Smartgun X will.

[Zyerne]

You've got the entire Outdoor Group as individual skills. Pulling that back to a group will save you 2 BP.

I'd drop the specialisation from pilot ground craft for another 2, and take Armour at 1 (with firearms)

Jump Automatics up to 6, as you can, and should, thats 400BP

[klinktastic]

In the SR4A book, the Improved Reflexes are as follows: LVL 1 = 1.5 PPs, LVL 2 = 2.5 PPs and LVL 3 = 4. So if you have magic 4, which equals 4 PPs, you have improved reflexes II, that means you have 1.5 PPs left, which brings me back to the following break out:

Enhanced Perception 2, Improved Gymnastics 2, Improved (anything else - probably inflitration) 2 all for the low low cost of 1.5 PPs.

Sustenence is really good for hackers, mechanics, armorers and the like, because they usually have quite a few extended test to make that take multiple hours per roll. Sustenence gives you the ability to make more rolls per day, without needing sleep. So its really good in some circumstances, not as good in others. Less sleep is always good.

[Zyerne]

Can't take Improved Ability 2 for skills that are only at 2 themselves.

Just noticed he doesn't actually have perception as a skill, dropping say first aid for it would be a good idea.

As he's already got a co-processor and get can perception enhancements in contacts/glasses/earbuds I'd take improved gym 1, improved summat else 1 and combat sense 2.

[John Kilroc]

You've got the entire Outdoor Group as individual skills. Pulling that back to a group will save you 2 BP.

I'd drop the specialisation from pilot ground craft for another 2, and take Armour at 1 (with firearms)

Jump Automatics up to 6, as you can, and should, thats 400BP

Thanks for the reminder, I tend not to see such mistakes... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif)

In the SR4A book, the Improved Reflexes are as follows: LVL 1 = 1.5 PPs, LVL 2 = 2.5 PPs and LVL 3 = 4. So if you have magic 4, which equals 4 PPs, you have improved reflexes II, that means you have 1.5 PPs left, which brings me back to the following break out:

Enhanced Perception 2, Improved Gymnastics 2, Improved (anything else - probably inflitration) 2 all for the low low cost of 1.5 PPs.

Sustenence is really good for hackers, mechanics, armorers and the like, because they usually have quite a few extended test to make that take multiple hours per roll. Sustenence gives you the ability to make more rolls per day, without needing sleep. So its really good in some circumstances, not as good in others. Less sleep is always good.

Good to know, as I don't have access to SR4A yet.


Now it's down to 2 BP worth of (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) and the advanced lifestyle rules.

[klinktastic]

See if the PP change is reflected in the errata and run it by your GM. Its worth the shot, because it frees up nearly 1 PP and that means 4 extra dice you can allocate to a variety of skills.

[John Kilroc]

There is no GM as of yet - I'm still on the lookout, because my last SR group broke up and my current group is about to go the same way due to time constraints, with nobody having expressed further interest in SR... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif)

[klinktastic]

You dont live in the Chicago, Il area do yah?

[John Kilroc]

Nope, northern Germany.

It's a little far away to just come jetting over, methinks. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[klinktastic]

Yeah, a little ways off.