Cheap ways to annoy the Horrors, Somewhat stolen from another thread Options

[Christian Lafay]

Alright we started talking about throwing the Horrors both at the sun and to Jupiter, so what else can we do? Granted my knowledge of the Horrors isn't that great but it seems to me they need high magic levels to come into our world so wouldn't the lack of the gaiasphere (or what ever it is called) be enough to keep them away, or at least limit them greatly? Have all the high technology and the great minds of the age kicking it on the moon and Mars while the magicians and the phys-ads try to put up the good fight.

[Draco18s]

kicking it on the moon

That would create a gaiasphere. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/indifferent.gif)

[Christian Lafay]

Really? I always assumed that would require tons of plant life and similar things instead of the soy to poop to soy recycling system that would initially be needed.

[Karoline]

Ideally a moon colony would have real plant life to help provide both oxygen and sustenance. And of course soy beans are plants too. So yeah, if you have a functioning moon base, it is going to have some level of mana. It'll still be a fairly high BC, but it won't be total void.

[sabs]

As for mars.
How do we know that Mars didn't use to be a Civilization that got wiped out during a High Mana phase when the horrors showed up?

[Dakka Dakka]

I know almost nothing about the Horrors, but wouldn't a large BC make them a lot easier to defeat?

[sabs]

Unless they're aligned with said BC.

[Dakka Dakka]

Only positive BC can be aspected. BC in space, from lack of life, most surely is negative BC (void or ebb)

[Christian Lafay]

As for mars.
How do we know that Mars didn't use to be a Civilization that got wiped out during a High Mana phase when the horrors showed up?

Then we can hope it is out of phase with earth and we bounce back and forth. -shrug-

[Kagetenshi]

Granted my knowledge of the Horrors isn't that great

With all due respect, Horrors are complex, potent, and varied enough (and the connected questions subtle enough) that if this is the case the proper course of action is to not speculate about them. To take one example, canon is inconsistent on whether Deep Space has an absence of mana, which would be a barrier to the Horrors, or whether it has profoundly corrupted mana, in which case it's a Horror playground and a gigantic embodiment of Ristul. At least up to SR3, the latter interpretation is favoured ("Space is virtually devoid of life, which distorts the mana field and raises the background count to mana warp levels.", emphasis added).

I know almost nothing about the Horrors, but wouldn't a large BC make them a lot easier to defeat?

And here's an example of that issue. In general, Horrors create and operate happily within background count, and one Horror more or less is Background Count (or rather, Background Count is that Horror).

~J

[klinktastic]

Oh I thought you meant whores....

[Inncubi]

OK, form the ED rules, the 4th World seems to be a very high background count place. The astral space was described as something pretty thick, even for Astral Sensitive characters (Windlings need to beat a difficulty to see there, and they have natural astral sight).

Mages who use raw magic (either mundane spellcasting, form another post, or simply spellcasting without a matrix) take damage, not according a numbered scale as in SR but according the corrupted area. Certainly the coming of the Horrors -being the invading Zerg-like pests they are- would associate that Background Count in their favor, but they /need/ a high count to start with. At least the big bad baddies, some of which are very subtle and are only astral entities. Lasers would be ineffectual against these and they can take control -as they did in some Kaers- of the metas with influence and have humanity turn on itself... more than it already has.

Also, given that we love wacky religions so much and an entity that seems to come from a Lovecraftian story is prime matter for that thing. Given the Unviersal Brotherhood already happened, so we have a precedent, think it happens in a bigger scale. Just imagine Nadja Daviar and Damien Knight corrupted or even better, again with a precedent, have Lofwyr be corrupted -Horror marked-.

Also, and this is my interpretation, Adepts in Earthdawn measured their skills with ranks -reinforcing the pattern threads of basic abilities- and Circles, measuring their "level". A higher Circle brought new abilities. Now its very easy to make the Circle-Initiation analogy, and if a 14th Circle=14th initiate grade and those were scared of some Horrors, you can make sure that in this very mundane world of ours we'd be pretty powerless against them.

So, yes, lasers and Thor shots are nice against Horror constructs and lesser physical entities. Against the big baddies... I doubt it.

*Thinks about how a horror would feed very nicely in a sweatshop in a third world-country*

If I remember how Wraith's worked in SR2, when someone around them felt pain their force would rise. I once faced them, and from a synergistic and sick feeding between themselves, they rose to Force 32 at the end of the fight. Think what forces can be reached in an open battlefield...

Edit: On the other hand the magic eating bacteria spread around Chicago would be a nice surprise... "Hey Verji, here's a bad case of the flu for ya!"

[Whipstitch]

And here's an example of that issue. In general, Horrors create and operate happily within background count, and one Horror more or less is Background Count (or rather, Background Count is that Horror).

~J

One of the fun things about the Horror Kagetenshi is talking about (Ristul) is the synergy it has with Taint. Taint is a Horror that thrives off of corrupted mana and can more or less efficiently recharge itself/grow stronger given sufficient time and a Tainted/Corrupted area to work with. It also exists only on the Astral and thus is a hard target to pin down given that its preferred haunts are loaded with background count and that it likes to Mark people when they manipulate mana. That's a wee tad inconvenient given that Taint is something like a circle 10 caster whose Mark allows him to use your body to target spells while he's nestled in astral space. He can also corrupt/redirect your own spell casting, so if he's Marked you he could just jolly well force feed you your own Mana Bolts if he's feeling frisky.

Honestly, I really don't know what you're supposed to do to get rid of something like that if it really feels like hanging out in Ristul's turf (or in Ristul itself, depending on how you look at this). Venturing into sentient malevolent background count so you can try to kill an astral entity that lives to curb stomp Magicians isn't my idea of a fun weekend. Presumably the powers that be in the 4th world agree, since their answer was to just hold up in Kaers and pray.

[Neraph]

A moon base is a -7 BC, as stated in Street Magic at least.

If nothing else, the invent of the taser/stick-n-shock round is a huge stopping force against the Willies. So are flamethrowers (pass the blessed promethium, Brother) and laser guns. And gauss cannons are really, really effective.

And for those mind-bendy powers of theirs - that's what drones and riggers are for.

[Whipstitch]

Someone still has to give the orders. You're not immune to a Horror's powers just because you're jacked in.

[Christian Lafay]

So carpet bomb with magic eating bacteria and get drone technology to the level of Surrogates, that is Joe Schmoe being able to work one like a pro.

[Neraph]

Someone still has to give the orders. You're not immune to a Horror's powers just because you're jacked in.

Actually you would be. You can't suffer from their mind bending powers because your mind isn't there - the whole magic and technology bit.

EDIT: And to clarify, I mean that the rigger's body would not be in the immediate vicinity. I had thought that to be assumed, but I guess some people think waltzing a rigger's meat into a combat situation where he's otherwise preoccupied is a good idea. It isn't.

[Whipstitch]

Horrors are really, really, really good at crapping all over line of sight rules. That's pretty much the whole point of Marking, in many cases. Magic vs. Tech also doesn't hit me as particularly relevant here. If someone drives you insane with magic, you're not going to be suddenly sane when someone puts some trodes on you.

[Christian Lafay]

Horrors are really, really, really good at crapping all over line of sight rules. That's pretty much the whole point of Marking, in many cases.

Rig from modern Kaers?

[Neraph]

That's interesting, because there's no such thing as Marking in Shadowrun. In fact, the entire premise of this thread is that Horrors exist in Shadowrun - something that is more than unclear.

And in any event, a R6 Pilot with a R3 Adaptability autosoft and a Fuzzy Logic system has up to 18 dice to function autonomously; more than enough. And I seriously doubt the Horror's mind abilities would work on an AI. Maybe Ghosts in the Machine would turn out to be the way to go.

[Whipstitch]

Rig from modern Kaers?

Helpful, but a lot of Kaers didn't really fall from brute force so much as from being undermined. I think tech would help, but mostly against Horror constructs. It's their servants that really want to tear your limbs off. The Horrors themselves would rather trick people into giving eachother tattoos that then allow the Horror to control whatever limb it's attached to and then feed upon the resulting terror and revulsion. Talking about this stuff just in terms of open warfare is honestly a bit weird given the subject matter.

[Doc Chase]

Maybe Ghosts in the Machine would turn out to be the way to go.

Interesting use for JackBNimble.

[Christian Lafay]

Interesting use for JackBNimble.

The purpose of it all along. Damn, Big D is clever.

[Neraph]

I don't follow. I basically just picked it up in 4th Ed and haven't read any of the fiction for it. Explain?

[Draco18s]

I don't follow. I basically just picked it up in 4th Ed and haven't read any of the fiction for it. Explain?

To Captain Chaos, I leave the encrypted file JackBNimble. Whatever rewards it reveals are yours. I had no success trying to decrypt this thing, but I’ve always believed it contained some communication from another world. Of course, I could be wrong. I’ve also notified the Draco Foundation to provide for your well-being in the event the file deals you a debilitating injury.

During the events of the Crash 2.0, the encryption on the JackBNimble file failed, and the program ran itself. The program appeared to "save" Captain Chaos and other deckers during the Crash 2.0, then dissapeared. This does not, of course, mean JackBNimble might not be a communication from another world (a bit of a tip of the hat to William Gibson, perhaps).
For more on JackBNimble, please see the Artifact Index.

Portfolio of a Dragon: Dunkelzahn's Secrets, System Failure