Aiming through Cameras? Options

[TickTalk]

I just started learning shadowrun today and basically decided that I wanted a sniper character. So smartlink comes to mind. But I was wondering if there was a way for me to hack cameras or use camera drones to triangulate a target and use the information from all the cameras to aim my sniper rifle at targets that are say, blocked by cover. If I'm using a high enough powered rifle I should be able to shoot through walls. I just wanna make sure I can hit doing that. Is it possible? Or is that a little too far into the future for shadowrun?

I intend to go pretty heavy on the cyber and bioware so no worries if I need some chrome there.

This post has been edited by TickTalk: Nov 16 2010, 06:39 AM

[Christian Lafay]

In this world I could see it being done but it would require things like layouts and heavy math. Ever watch Myth Busters and see the guys measuring things on screens for movie myths? It would be like that. "Guy in room A. Guy is approx X tall, get reference. Guy is Y away from wall, use X as reference tool. Compare spot in room to room in building use blueprints." While it would seem completely cool to do to a sleeping target for Ss & Gs I don't see it working for those that might move around. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

As far as camera drones, if you can pin-point their location to a minute figure and they have a range finder on them (and maybe ultra-sound for mapping) and are hooked up to a computer to calculate it all, then that might be an option. Now if Commlinks have GPS and the technology has gotten more accurate then you could probably use that too, if you have a good hacker friend.

[PoliteMan]

You just basically described a Tacsoft. Look in Unwired.

[Christian Lafay]

And this is what I get for having GMs who stick to core only, haha

[CanRay]

The thing about cameras in Shadowrun is that they're Three-Dimentional Cameras (Unless they're cheap.). That makes rangefinding quite a bit easier. Can it be done, I would say "Yes", but the equipment and software needed for it to be easy would be military and expensive.

But, for a hacker doing the calculations on their tricked out 'Link, feeding to a dedicated sniper, it can be done. I'd slap negatives on it galore, but it can be done.

Just remember the difference between cover and concealment.

Personally, I think situations like that are why they invented launched explosives.

[Zyerne]

You'll also want a Barrat 121 from Arsenal and the shooting through barriers rules from the main rulebook.

[TickTalk]

But I'm wondering what kind of modifiers that would make me? Because making a program to calculate all of that is childs play in 2077 Couldn't Is there anyway I can bridge the matrix data to my smartlink? Or make a sniper rifle that is also some sort of deck for the purpose of through camera aiming? Can I possibly shoot someone who's 2 floors up from me in a building simply by being able to see the whole building and it's dimensions etc through cameras? In relation to myself and where my gun is? Also drones seem more viable at this option.

[Makki]

Arsenal p162
Information-Guided fire.

That's exactly what he asked for.

-4 modifier for information guided
+x = net hits of spotter

[Christian Lafay]

But I'm wondering what kind of modifiers that would make me? Because making a program to calculate all of that is childs play in 2077 Couldn't Is there anyway I can bridge the matrix data to my smartlink? Or make a sniper rifle that is also some sort of deck for the purpose of through camera aiming? Can I possibly shoot someone who's 2 floors up from me in a building simply by being able to see the whole building and it's dimensions etc through cameras? In relation to myself and where my gun is? Also drones seem more viable at this option.

So you want the controls from Shooter, just with better cameras.

[TickTalk]

Thanks all of you! Very helpful!

[ProfGast]

You might want to consider a drone using an Ultrawideband Radar Sensor (Arsenal 60) to map things out for you too. Camera's are nice and all but the UWB Radar can SEE THROUGH WALLS (penetrating up to ratingx5 structure barriers) and can also be used to detect things like cyberware or weaponry on the targets. Granted using such a drone means the drone's location will be pretty easily detected and it can be jammed, but what do you care? The instant you turned that thing on you got a perfect 3D map within 100M of the drone's location and a Rating 3 UWB Radar can see through up to 15 structure. That's armored materials like reinforced concrete. A rating 4 one can see through up to 20 structure so you can pinpoint your enemy and dig 'em out. And if you're being jammed you can't use sensor-based spotting very well anyways.

[TickTalk]

A 3d map doesn't help me connect my sniper shot to their head however. Just know there's a big room there. The scan would be helpful but right now I've got my longarms up to 7 along with hacking surveillance 4 and electronic warfare sensors 4. My agility as at 6 as well

So what kind of modifiers am I looking for shooting into a corporate building from outside of it at about a kilometer (Cybereyes to ignore that nasty range negative.)

How hard is it going to be for me hit targets I can only see through those sensors? I'm trying to create a super sniper with secondary in surveillance hacking and hijacking and thirdly to be super mobile/athletic. Most of this being achived by cyberware.

[Makki]

hack into corporate building's system for security account, then:
Simple Action: Sensor Test (Perception+Sensor Rating +- Signature Modifier) (vs. Infiltration+Agility, if Target trys to sneek around cameras)
if successful:
Simple Action: Aim
Simple Action: Shoot, longarms+Agi -4 (information guided Fire) + net hits on Sensor Test +2 smart

damage must exceed corporate building walls' armor Rating minus AP (that's 12 for bricks or 16 for concrete)
target gets corporate building walls' armor Rating as a bonus to damage resistance

[ProfGast]

A 3d map doesn't help me connect my sniper shot to their head however. Just know there's a big room there.

Uhhhhh... ¿Qué? UWB radar is basically ultrasound detector that goes through walls too. So you can see locations of people, items, as WELL as terrain. Like I said it lets you see through walls. Much more than "just know there's a a big room there". And it sees through the Invisibility spell and things like optical camouflage too. And it has an added bonus of perfect rangefinding too.

So what kind of modifiers am I looking for shooting into a corporate building from outside of it at about a kilometer (Cybereyes to ignore that nasty range negative.)

Most sniper rifles come with an imaging scope that you can stick Vision Magnification into, and leave you without needing cybereyes, or with other more important upgrades. Also it's 100¥(scope) instead of 1000¥ (cybereyes). Very important for the next part of your character, which I quoted, since it seems like you're trying to pick up a LOT of schticks (most of which are expensive).

To actually answer your question though, from what I can tell, the penalty for Indirect Fire stays. So you get a -4 to your dice pool but you also add net hits on the Sensor test that your spotter saw the target with. Furthermore you have to go through the barrier's armor. I'll be a bit generous and assume that the barrier is a wall of some sort of heavy material. That gives it an armor rating of 6. If you're using Ex-Ex ammo on a Barrett sniper rifle, that gives you an AP of -5. So in all you'll shoot the target with a -4 + Sensor net hits modifier to your longarms pool, and the target in this case will have a +1 bonus to his Body+Armor roll vs your dv of 10P+net hits (and your AP won't apply to him since it was soaked up by the wall.) If you were using APDS, you'd still have -2 AP when the bullet hit him, but your base DV would only be 9P.
Your smartgun bonus (and you need a smartgun to even attempt this) is however be added to your dice pool.

How hard is it going to be for me hit targets I can only see through those sensors? I'm trying to create a super sniper with secondary in surveillance hacking and hijacking and thirdly to be super mobile/athletic. Most of this being achived by cyberware.

Like I said earlier, that seems like you're trying to pick up a lot. I suppose if you don't put a LOT of money into your weapon, you can pile ¥¥ onto hacking gear and 'wares. But you're going to want to make the most out of your money at every turn to make it all work at chargen.

Edit: For example, rationing your BPs may be a good idea. the 14 BPs required to take your Longarms skill from 6-7 might be better used to say, use 2 points for Specialization: Sniper Rifles? That'll give you an effective Longarms 8 when using sniper rifles. Unless you really like having Longarms 7. then you can just add the specialty and get longarms 9. Also, unless you're an elf, maxing your Agility to 6 is a bit of a waste of points unless you're bumping it up with Muscle Toner bioware or something similar. Again, unless you like having completely maxed Agility.

[Zyerne]

14BP from skil rating 6 to 7?

If you want to shoot through walls reliably you're going to need to invest in Restricted Gear to get some AV rounds for the extra punch through barriers. Normally I'd consider it a total waste to use it on ammo but it's somewhat central to your character.

[ProfGast]

My bad. It's 18 points.
Positive Quality Aptitude (Longarms): 10 BP
Longarms 6 --> Longarms 7: 8 BP

And yes, Restricted gear, for the Barrett Sniper Rifle AND AV/APDS rounds is highly suggested. Otherwise you're stuck with the Ares Desert Strike as the most powerful rifle you can start with, and Ex-Ex with the best damage/AP modifiers.

Of course, with Restricted Gear, and a fair amount of Nuyen, you can do something ultimately silly like, oh, Mod your Barrett for Full Auto fire, thus giving it the ability to burn through ammunition like none other. Oh and the ability to add +9 to your DV.

But then you're not really a sniper if you're using a sniper rifle-machinegun are you?

Edit: Upon a little more digging, you can actually spend all 6 weapon slots on your Barrett to make it a HIGH VELOCITY full auto weapon.
Allowing you to burn through 12 of the 14 bullets it has in its clip in one complex action. And add a +11 DV to your hail of death.
Granted doing so does terrible terrible things to your accuracy, through recoil. But still, the prices we must pay for turning targets into meaty chunks, right?
I suppose you can alleviate these things by installing a gas vent (technically only allowed for automatics or machine guns, but that's what the barrett IS now right?) and use gyro stabilization and a few others. But the ubermodded Barret already costs 38,000¥
Alright I'll stop this flight of fancy right now. I apologize. Got carried away <_<

[Gamer6432]

Page 90 of SR4A says that if you use Aptitude at Chargen, going from 6 to 7 is 8 BP (double normal costs), so 18 total.

Edit: nevermind, beat me to the punch (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[Zyerne]

Ah, I wasn't accounting for aptitude which is why I questioned it.

Yes, there are several much better mods for a sniper weapon than BF or FA.

And one that would probably indicate some kind of psychosis. You've heard about people talking to weapons. You can have one that talks back.

[TickTalk]

The thing about the drone is as soon as it's jammed I can no longer see my targets. That's what I mean by even though I pinged a map the jamming makes targeting near impossible. And I am trying to cover a lot of schticks.

I will probably buy a bit of restricted gear but It's needed at this point. And I'll be using a big punch sniper rifle possibly on a smartlink stand and even might carry a backup smartlink sniper rifle (The one with 2 clips) For using both. Can I have two smartlinks connected? (And I'm aware of the risk of being wireless hacked.)

Also am I doing well for someone who just learned this game today? I mean thinking and planning my character? Critique me please

[TickTalk]

Page 90 of SR4A says that if you use Aptitude at Chargen, going from 6 to 7 is 8 BP (double normal costs), so 18 total.

Edit: nevermind, beat me to the punch (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

18 total? To get longarms to 7 is like 32 points isn't it?

[Zyerne]

32 total + 10 for Aptitude

18 to go from 6 to 7, including Aptitude.

[Gamer6432]

Edit:

*needs to remember to hit the refresh button before the quick reply button*

[Zyerne]

While the idea of a HV Barret is amusing, quick breakdown and others would be somewhat more useful.

I'm still taken with the idea of a gun that congratulates you after a good shot though. (Or chides you when you miss.)

[TickTalk]

Elf blind sniper

400 bp

30 Elf
40 agility 6
65 logic 6 (For hacking probably gonna only make it 5)
40 reaction 5
30 intuition 4
10 willpower 2
10 body 2
10 strength 2
0 charisma 3
30 3 edge
-5 Mild addiction psyche
-15 Severely allergic to gold
-5 incompetent with bows
-5 weak immune system
-5 incompetent clubs

10 Aptitude (Longarms)

240 (Corrected it's error of 250)


34 longarms 7 SP Sniper Rifles +2
8 Dodge 2
16 perception 4
18 Electronic warfare Specialization Sensor Operation- 6
18 Hacking surveillance 6
8 gymnastics 2


340 (Corrected from miscalculation)



250,000 Nuyen

400

Here's what I've got so far. Suggestions? Is there anything I'm neglecting on? The base Idea is Shoots through walls using hacked cameras. Then mobility to get to a good location for a shot. Also a lil bit of edge in there.

This post has been edited by TickTalk: Nov 16 2010, 10:21 AM

[ProfGast]

18 total? To get longarms to 7 is like 32 points isn't it?

42
Longarms 6: 6*4=24 points
Aptitude (longarms): 10 points
Longarms 7: 8 points
Not to mention it costs you 10/35 total Positive Quality points. if it's something that you're fixed on, go for it. But there are some more point efficient alternatives.

Also, you're doing pretty well, and you seem to have a nice character put together. However from my viewpoint of someone who has just recently been trying to put together a sniper character and exploring the possibilities therein you may be biting off a bit more than you can chew and may want to dial back your expectations a tad. Like I said earlier, maxing a stat to 6 may look attractive on the surface but you're actually spending 65 BPs to take Agility to 6. Alternately you could take Agility to 5 (40BP) and then spend 5,000¥ (1BP) to augment it up to 6 instead using ware(z).

You are not allowed (under normal chargen rules) to take any item that has an availability greater than 12 at chargen. This rule can be violated only by taking the Restricted Gear (5BP) quality which itself can only be taken 3 times.

There are only three sniper rifles which have an availability of 12 or less, and these are: Walter MA-2100 (10F, 7P -3AP), Ares Desert Strike (10F, 8P, -3AP) and the HK PSG Enforcer (double clip, 12F 7P, -3).

The Barrett, the Anti-materiel rifle is unfortunately 18F and if you want it you will need restricted gear.

And yes, you can have two smartlinks connected.

EDIT: looks like you ARE an elf. Well don't I feel silly now. AND I was beaten to the calculation

EDIT EDIT: I wouldn't let you take Incompetent (Bows). But that's just me. More detailed analyses in later post maybe.