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> Nimue's Salamanders, How quickly could they be bred?
Austere Emancipa...
post Mar 11 2004, 06:50 PM
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I've only got the Critters that comes with the GM Screen. Is there additional information about these lizards in any of the other sourcebooks? It just seems that these would be perfect for magical security everywhere.

Most salamanders don't reach sexual maturity until ~2-8 years of age, smaller salamanders reaching maturity younger (so N's Salamanders would probably reach it in ~2-4 years), but that would still allow quite a lot of breeding in a rather short time period.

Salamanders lay from a dozen to several hundred eggs, depending on whether they lay them underwater or on land. In a controlled enviroment, the majority of these should reach maturity.

Assuming 20 eggs per year per salamander, 50% of which reach maturity, 5 years to sexual maturity and 7 years of sexual longevity (almost a worst case scenario), and a starting adult population of 50 (half female, or whatever), we'd get 50+250 after a year, 300+1,000 after 5, 550+2,500 after 6, 50+750+5,250 after 7, etc. 20 years and there'd be quite enough of the buggers to guard every major facility of the megacorp.

Since they're so damn small, feeding them or providing enough space for them wouldn't be a problem -- at least not to a megacorp, considering their immense usefulness. Since they're small they are also weak, and they have no dangerous powers apart from the Magic Drain, so if reasonably maintained they would never cause problems.

Any site the owners of which are serious about security and where magic will not be used often should have a few dozen of them, with 2 guys taking care of them and rotating them between a large terrarium and smaller cages all over the site.

What am I missing here?
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Herald of Verjig...
post Mar 11 2004, 07:02 PM
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Paranormals of Europe, page 72.

The shadowtalk explains why they don't work well as magical security.
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Austere Emancipa...
post Mar 11 2004, 07:06 PM
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Well, I don't have that book so I can just go ahead and seriously screw magicians.
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Herald of Verjig...
post Mar 11 2004, 07:09 PM
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Your premise about keeping them in terrariums around the facility may work. Keep in mind that they can use absorbed magic to boost their strength, and glass breaks. Once they do drain a spell, their innate "run away" insticts takes over, and they will try to flee the source of the magic. This may include shattering a terrarium (if the booster strength is enough to do so) and dissapearing into a nearby sink.
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Nikoli
post Mar 11 2004, 07:11 PM
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But at least they'd be eaten by teh devil rats once they did.
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Herald of Verjig...
post Mar 11 2004, 07:15 PM
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I didn't say down the drain, I was speculating that they would hide in the sink and remain there quite comfortably until they forget the danger or the danger casts a spell near the sink.
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Austere Emancipa...
post Mar 11 2004, 07:20 PM
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In this case, maintaining them reasonably would include not having them anywhere around when the staff uses magic, and the main terrariums should probably be deep inside the facility so that magic used by intruders wouldn't be affected.

The smaller around the facility could be made out of a harder material. And note that they only get a Strength of 6 even with the Enhanced Physical Attributes, which isn't that high -- thick bulletproof glass should restrain them pretty well.
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Herald of Verjig...
post Mar 11 2004, 07:25 PM
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I said they may be able to break out. If you spend the :nuyen: to insure that the material will withstand the theoretical maximum salamander fury, the chances of a typical nimue salamander breaking out approaches 0.
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Austere Emancipa...
post Mar 11 2004, 07:28 PM
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Okay.

So, as long as you don't make the mistake of buying PAoE, Nimue's Salamanders do make almost perfect guard animals.
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Nikoli
post Mar 11 2004, 07:32 PM
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How many of these buggers are we talking about in a given area?
Doesn't strength become cummulative when you have multiple things pushing? If you got 60 Str 3 N. Slamanders, that 180 str, pretty impressive. Take into account the law of diminishing returns, etc. you might get an actual str of around 60 to 70 depending on how many of the little darlings are in one given terrerium. That's impressive stuff.
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Austere Emancipa...
post Mar 11 2004, 07:40 PM
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QUOTE (Nikoli)
How many of these buggers are we talking about in a given area?

I'm thinking 2-4 near exits and most important areas, a few scattered individually around the facility. The smaller cages would always just hold 1, and would never be in plain view.

The terrarium should be a room from which, when locked down, the salamanders cannot escape. If elephant dung hits the jet prop and someone unleashes major magic mojo near the terrarium, they might break out of them, and might even kill each other, but they wouldn't get out of the room.

60 Str 3 salamanders certainly don't have even close the brawn of a single Str 40 Elephant, at least not for breaking down barriers. Even a thousand average humans cannot break down (not topple) a stone wall without some tools, while an elephant might.

Still, several Str 6 salamanders loose in a corp facility would be pretty scary. That's why you get a BR 12 security door in the terrarium-room, and make sure there are no pipes or ducts or anything out of that space that a small lizard could crawl through.
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Nikoli
post Mar 11 2004, 07:42 PM
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Hence the law of diminishing returns comment. But you're right, to a point. 1 single human cannot generally flip a car over, however, 4 to 6 motivated gents can flip them if working together. Get enough motivated creatures wanting to go one way at the same time, and you've got a true force to be reckoned with.
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fctarbox3
post Mar 11 2004, 07:48 PM
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Saying "theoretical maximum salamander fury" gives me a giggle fit.
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Austere Emancipa...
post Mar 11 2004, 07:49 PM
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QUOTE (Nikoli)
Get enough motivated creatures wanting to go one way at the same time, and you've got a true force to be reckoned with.

Certainly, but the likelyhood of that happening, not to mention that force getting anywhere to do some harm, is near zero as long as appropriate steps are taken. And the cost of those steps are really small compared to the advantages.
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Nikoli
post Mar 11 2004, 07:50 PM
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true, heck a zapper strip covering a foot fromt he walls should do nicely, until the buggers fry themselves and start covering it.

You could also keep them gased, they can still absorb the magic in their sleep can't they? Or howabout paralasys? pin them to a board and feed them from time to time.
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Austere Emancipa...
post Mar 11 2004, 07:52 PM
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Or a quickly oxidizing, weak poison spray in the terrarium-room (not the terrariums themselves) if one of the terrariums breaks. Since the NS's have a Body of 1 and Vulnerability: Poisons, they'd die mighty quick.

I'm all for the humane treatment for animals, so I wouldn't use those methods... Or not really, I just think it's generally best to keep animals you want working for you "happy".

This post has been edited by Austere Emancipator: Mar 11 2004, 07:54 PM
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Nikoli
post Mar 11 2004, 07:55 PM
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That could work. Problem is, with a species that prolific, they'd potentially become immune to the poison after a while.
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Austere Emancipa...
post Mar 11 2004, 08:00 PM
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Not that fast. I'm assuming 1 set of eggs per year, 10 adults from each batch, and it always takes 5 years before the next generation can lay more eggs. It would actually take pretty god damn long.

By the 26-hundreds there might be a population living in the sewers that's broken out of facilities and is resistant to poisons, though.
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Nikoli
post Mar 11 2004, 08:02 PM
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And woah be the dragon that flies too close there
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Grey
post Mar 11 2004, 08:04 PM
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Can someone explain what these things are? They sound interesting, but I lack both books that mention them.
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Austere Emancipa...
post Mar 11 2004, 08:11 PM
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25cm long salamanders, completely uninteresting except that they have the Magic Sense Power and, much more importantly, a Magic Drain Power that allows them to lower the Force of any spell cast within 12 meters of them depending on an opposed test of their Essence vs the caster's Magic Rating.

This post has been edited by Austere Emancipator: Mar 11 2004, 08:12 PM
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Nikoli
post Mar 11 2004, 08:12 PM
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My question is this, does that power activate when they are sleeping?
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Austere Emancipa...
post Mar 11 2004, 08:16 PM
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Since the paragraphs uses verbs like "uses", "may use", etc. it seems like it is meant to be somewhat conscious. However, to me it would make more sense if it were subconscious and happened even when asleep.

There might be some side-effects from gasing them to sleep when they are "on duty", though. They might lose their Powers, for example. In fact, considering the whole Deadly damage = Magic loss and Doctoring The Awakened stuff, I'm pretty sure they'd eventually (or even quickly) lose their Powers.
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Grey
post Mar 11 2004, 08:18 PM
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Do they drain spells that were being sustained and then carried into their range? Or just spells cast within their range?
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Austere Emancipa...
post Mar 11 2004, 08:23 PM
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Just spells that are cast.

They certainly don't provide absolute protection against magic, but combined with all the other possible forms of magic protection they might give an edge. If they knock a few points off the Force of a spell, it's that much easier to use Spell Defense against, etc.
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