Does Personalized Grip naturally infer metahuman customization?, 100 yen and one slot or 150 yen and two slots? Options

[Saint Sithney]

By RAW no. It's not mentioned.
By reason, yes, it's custom-fitted to your hand using a freaking mold, how could you have trouble holding it.

Thoughts?

Also, if you say that the grip is still to large for a dwarf's hand w/o customization, than that would mean that a metahuman customized pistol would need to fire a smaller bullet or be completely redesigned, which ain't 50 yen and a threshold 8 armorer test...

[Yerameyahu]

It's 'imply', and no. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) If anything, P-Grip *requires* Metahuman Customization first. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Saint Sithney]

Actually, I meant confer (or imply) and it came out halfway in-between.

Please supply your reasoning.

[PresentPresence]

I see Personalized Grip as meaning that the actual indentations or whatever (as seen in a sports drink bottle) are fitted to your fingers and palm (sports drink bottles never seem to fit mine), and Metahuman Customization changes the size of things like the actual grip and trigger guard (which is not covered by Personalized Grip). But that's just rationalizing.

[pbangarth]

There's a wide variation of characteristics within any metahuman classification. Personalization takes a regular [general Metahuman model] fit and adjusts for finger length/width, palm shape, etc.

So, no.

[Saint Sithney]

Personalization takes a regular [general Metahuman model] fit and adjusts for finger length/width, palm shape, etc.

So, no.

But the mechanical effects only deal with holding the weapon. It's -2 to firing for misfit weapon size.
If you've got a 1-handed weapon which has been adjusted for your finger length/width, palm shape, etc. then where is the hold up?

Again, skinnier grip = smaller bullets.

[PresentPresence]

has been adjusted for your finger length/width, palm shape, etc.

That's the problem, for me. Think about it - a Troll might have trouble fitting his finger in the trigger guard without pulling the actual trigger. Similarly, a dwarf might have trouble pulling the trigger comfortably. Also, think about rifle butts or stocks. A dwarf would have difficulty firing a weapon with a large butt because he would have to hoist it up higher on his upper arm so that it would fit into the crook of his elbow, and would have to hunch his shoulders up to do so. Metahuman Customization modifies more than just the grip, is my point. I'll admit that 2 slots is unreasonable, though.

[scarius]

my understanding of the meta-human mods is that i doesnt change the effects of the weapon, it just changes the weapon to suit the meta-typye. eg: a trolls heavy pistol would have been made with everything a bit larger, so that it fits into said trolls hand easly as a heavy pistol would fit into yours or my hand.

just because the weapon is made for a smaller meta-type (read:dwarf) doesnt mean that it necessarily has to have smaller ammo and as such would do less damage or something similar, for this to be true then the larger meta-types (read: trolls) would be getting weapons that would do more damage.

as to the size of stocks/butts for rifles and shotguns, the only thing that you really need to worry about in this case it the length, if its a bit higher its not really much of a big deal because you just would have to move your head a little higher to use the sights. where the length of the stock would make it harder for you to actually place the weapon properly into your shoulder, and if you cant do that then you will have to just shoot "rambo" style (read: from the hip) which drastically reduces you accuracy

[KarmaInferno]

Metahuman customization gets you into the neighborhood.

Personalized Grip gets you to the exact address.




-k

[Yerameyahu]

There are definitely never any changes in bullet size.

[Zyerne]

Which is just as well otherwise we'd have troll revolvers firing assault cannon rounds.

[Karoline]

But the mechanical effects only deal with holding the weapon. It's -2 to firing for misfit weapon size.
If you've got a 1-handed weapon which has been adjusted for your finger length/width, palm shape, etc. then where is the hold up?

Again, skinnier grip = smaller bullets.

Okay, so it works like this. Personalized grip means that all the little finger indents on the handle match up perfectly with your fingers. Metahuman customization means that the grip is larger or slightly smaller (The handle of a pistol is not the exact size of the bullets inside it, there is room for shaving off some size). It also means that the trigger guard is larger, or the trigger itself might be pushed back into the grip just a bit for shorter fingers.

As someone else mentioned, on rifles it would also include the butt being shortened or lengthened.

Basically metahuman customization is like getting the right sized shoe, and personalized grip is like getting those custom insole things. You can get a custom insole for the wrong sized shoe and it will be better than a normal wrong sized shoe, but it will still be a wrong sized shoe.

[pbangarth]

Metahuman customization gets you into the neighborhood.

Personalized Grip gets you to the exact address.

This says what I tried to say, only more eloquently. Gotta love metaphor.

[Karoline]

This says what I tried to say, only more eloquently. Gotta love metaphor.

Except it doesn't explain why you would need metahuman customization if you got personalized grip. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif)

[Yerameyahu]

Because it should obviously be a prerequisite, and because RAW they're independent.

[pbangarth]

Except it doesn't explain why you would need metahuman customization if you got personalized grip. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif)

Oh. It did to me.

How about... personalized grip can make enough of a modification to fit a normal [XXX] grip to a unique [XXX] hand, but cannot change enough to fit a normal [YYY] grip to a unique [XXX] hand. It's designed to make fine-tuning changes only.

[Karoline]

Oh. It did to me.

How about... personalized grip can make enough of a modification to fit a normal [XXX] grip to a unique [XXX] hand, but cannot change enough to fit a normal [YYY] grip to a unique [XXX] hand. It's designed to make fine-tuning changes only.

Sounds good to me (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Saint Sithney]

Meh. I guess there's always the 110%-125% price for meta gear to keep dwarfs and trolls from having to send every gun they acquire to a gunsmith shop to have its total efficiency reduced with a wasted mod slot using some mystical procedure.

"Well, we switched out your grips, guards, trigger, magazine catch button, mag release, firing selector, and charging handle. Then, for good measure we adjusted the butt-stock, rails and sights. That'll be 50 bux! Heyup-yup!"

This whole thing is nonsense... Should just get the mage to cast Fashion on it..

[Machiavelli]

Merlin the gunsmith, yeah....^^

[MikeKozar]

Oh. It did to me.

How about... personalized grip can make enough of a modification to fit a normal [XXX] grip to a unique [XXX] hand, but cannot change enough to fit a normal [YYY] grip to a unique [XXX] hand. It's designed to make fine-tuning changes only.

I keep thinking of "The Mote in God's Eye". The explorers find a highly specialised alien species, and encounter the 'engineer' race. Although it was unable to communicate, it instinctively modded anything nearby - the coffeepot somehow started to sweat out the impurities and produce the world's best coffee, etc. When somebody let it have a pistol (over some strenuous objections) it carefully examined the owners hands and fingerjoints, and adjusted the grip accordingly. Afterwards, the pistol would settle perfectly into a firm and level grip, and it was significantly easier to use.

[Yerameyahu]

It's not a wasted mod slot. It's the price of weird races. Shoulda been an Ork. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Dahrken]

What sounds a bit fishy is that you can buy a factory produced metahuman-adapted gun of the same model that won't use up that modification slot...

I'd suggest houseruling that situation as stacking the financial cost (10% of base item cost and cost of personalized grip) but using a single modification slot as you are altering the same area of the weapon twice.

[Yerameyahu]

*shrug* That's because it's factory-produced, not modded later (presuming that a factory option does actually exist). Many of the mods are like that; 'stock mods/accessories' don't even count, after all. :/ There are some weird little cross-book errors like that, such as the no-slot internal smartgun 'accessory'.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

*shrug* That's because it's factory-produced, not modded later (presuming that a factory option does actually exist). Many of the mods are like that; 'stock mods/accessories' don't even count, after all. :/ There are some weird little cross-book errors like that, such as the no-slot internal smartgun 'accessory'.

That would be because of the fact that the "no slot internal smartgun accessory" is actually designed into the gun itself at manufacture, which is why the gun costs twice as much. They are made that way... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smokin.gif)

A weapon modification after you purchased a gun without the accessory would cost you the cost of the modification and the slot. Afterall, the slot was designed into the other model, and you are adding it after the fact... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)

Not an error at all in my opinion...

[Yerameyahu]

Like I said: "That's because it's factory-produced, not modded later (presuming that a factory option does actually exist)." In game terms, though, there *are* several little discrepancies like that: errors.