US military unveils 'smart gun', Yes, it's coming. Options

[Stahlseele]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/11876041

[A new gun the US military hopes will help take on the Taliban has been unveiled.

Called the XM-25 it has been described by the US Army as a 'game changer'.

It uses a laser guidance system and specially developed 25mm high explosive rounds which can be programmed to detonate over a target.

Richard Audette helped develop it for the US Army and says it's a big leap forward because it's the first small arms weapon to use smart technology.

Full solution

"The way a soldier operates this is basically find your target, then laze (laser) to it, which gives the range, then you get an adjusted aim point, adjust the fire and pull the trigger.

"Say you've lazed out to 543 metres... When you pull the trigger it arms the round and fires it 543 metres plus or minus one, two or three metres."
/quote]

[hobgoblin]

This is basically a continuation of the grenade part of the XM29, also known as OICW...

[Doc Chase]

I believe this was one half of the argument in another thread. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

It's nice to see them using it. It's even more amusing to read the comments about the weapon system on Yahoo.

According to the Internet Layman, this is a weapon system that fires through cover and destroys buildings. I love people.

[Stahlseele]

According to the Internet Layman, a Katana can slice through Tanks and Diamond is the hardest Metal on Earth 2

[Doc Chase]

According to the Internet Layman, a Katana can slice through Tanks and Diamond is the hardest Metal on Earth 2

That is exactly why I love these people. They're screaming about Assange and co. in our governments, steelin' our seekritz but don't actually stop to read what the secrets are.

Even if this has been publically known for how many years?

[Rotbart van Dain...]

According to the Internet Layman, this is a weapon system that fires through cover and destroys buildings.

That depends on the cover and building.

Of course it doesn't really have laser "guidance" so much as a laser range finder. Which the only thing is impressive about that it works well enough for field use.

[Doc Chase]

That depends on the cover and building.

Of course it doesn't really have laser "guidance" so much as a laser range finder. Which the only thing is impressive about that it works well enough for field use.

They expect it to shoot through walls and destroy them utterly.

It's a fantastic piece of hardware. You can actually time the grenades to airburst behind cover, thereby invalidating said cover, just like the Ares CAR-32's. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[Yerameyahu]

Finally. They've been making this bloody gun for like 15 years.

Works great in the video games, though. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) Get the range from the laser, aim slightly higher, boom. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Rotbart van Dain...]

They expect it to shoot through walls and destroy them utterly.

Perhaps they think all buildings are like in california. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Doc Chase]

Perhaps they think all buildings are like in california. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

They're Internet Laymen; I wouldn't put it past them. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Kagetenshi]

It's an MGL-6 with better range and smaller ammo capacity. Not really all that exciting.

~J

[Rotbart van Dain...]

The ranges of the MGL-6 and the MGL-12 have alwas been odd ̣– neither of them is a standard (underbarrel) grenade launcher.

[Jizmack]

I don’t see this as "smart gun" as depicted in Shadowrun, although it’s a step closer…

It looks more like a Bolt Gun in Warhammer-40K (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[tarbrush]

I see it exactly as a grenade launcher with an airburst link? Although I know perhaps even less about firearms than the average Internet Layman.

[Mongoose]

I see it exactly as a grenade launcher with an airburst link? Although I know perhaps even less about firearms than the average Internet Layman.

Its descended from the weapon development proposal / program that inspired the airburst link in the first place. The idea has been around (and publicised) a long time; it just took quite a while to get it into a field ready package, tested, approved, paid for, and distributed. (Feel free to add in a few dozen beureocratic steps I forgot- the USA has a long history of sucking at introducing new infantry weapons.)

[Yerameyahu]

That's what it is. If, by grenade launcher, you mean 'micro-grenade rifle'.

[Stahlseele]

I don’t see this as "smart gun" as depicted in Shadowrun, although it’s a step closer…

It looks more like a Bolt Gun in Warhammer-40K (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Have you read the description of Smartlink?
It tells you distance to target, drop rate of bullet, number of bullets, where the gun is pointed right now and how much you have to change the weapons direction to hit what you're looking at.

[rofltehcat]

So... I guess this is basically light, high-precision grenade launcher with airburst? Sounds interesting.
When are they planning to have one of those in every squad? Because having more than 1 (or 2) doesn't really seem to make sense. Most other soldiers will still have 'normal' rifles (though those could profit from some smartlinking, too).

Have you read the description of Smartlink?
It tells you distance to target, drop rate of bullet, number of bullets, where the gun is pointed right now and how much you have to change the weapons direction to hit what you're looking at.

I always imagined it as some sort of crosshair displayed into your AR overlay where the gun calculates the most probable impact point and puts an crosshair there.

Or wasn't there something about smartlinked weapons auto-adjusting the barrel slightly? I don't know, I probably read too much different stuff everywhere.

[Smokeskin]

When are they planning to have one of those in every squad? Because having more than 1 (or 2) doesn't really seem to make sense. Most other soldiers will still have 'normal' rifles (though those could profit from some smartlinking, too).

They're planning to deploy one per infantry squad next year.

I would be that surprised if these things turned out to be useful with more than 1 or 2 per squad. The main weaknesses could be CQB*, not being able to carry enough ammo, collateral damage and lack of suppression. If the experiences in Afghanistan shows that those things aren't problematic, it might equal the assault rifle in general purpose usefulness.

* anyone know how well the flechettes for it functions, and/or how many they'll be carrying? I wonder if something like a metal storm round could be developed for it, so each "shell" had 4 shots or something, giving it a much larger ammo capacity.

[Kot]

It's obviously a support weapon, and a good one. Expecially for eliminating enemy support teams and strongpoints (if it's cover penetrating potential is enough).
Though it's no huge development - everyone interested in modern weapons could see that comming.

P.S. I heard a member of spec ops team say, that most of the near-future weapons you've seen in video games, and RPG's are at lest being considered, and some are already in planning/development phase. I'd say that's at least highly probable, as we've already seen microwave guns, systems like metal storm, and remote combat drones. So, 'shadowrun' is pretty much coming true around us. Slowly.

[Smokeskin]

It's obviously a support weapon, and a good one. Expecially for eliminating enemy support teams and strongpoints (if it's cover penetrating potential is enough).
Though it's no huge development - everyone interested in modern weapons could see that comming.

It might not be "technologically surprising" huge, but it is a huge tactical development. Being able to detonate a small grenade precisely just behind or above cover, at very long range, that is a nasty advantage. Infantry is currently very good at cutting down enemies in the open, and getting enemies to keep their heads down. Once the enemy is hunkered down, taking him out is very difficult. Often, artillery or air support is called in to finish the fight, or one party simply exfiltrates. Now, if infantry squads get the ability to accurately take out enemies in cover, that's a whole new game.

[Doc Chase]

Slap biometric access on that thing and it gets really fun.

[AppliedCheese]

The only bad part is that it loses a lot of its effectiveness past the ranges you can use a normal GL at reasonably effectively. The gun doesn't become any less lethal, but the shooter does. Generally observing a hunkered down target past 150m or so gets very difficult. Hell, under 150m it can be very difficult. Even if you saw him standing a few seconds ago. Most firefights at the longer ranges consist of a lot of "fire in that general direction and hope the number of bullets whizzing around gets someone" and "wait for him to stand up so I can hit him". In both cases the role of traditional grenade launcher is to lob grenades more or less into areas where you think the enemy is in general. The XM-25, by virtue of not having a user ID'd target, becomes little more than another way to saturate an area with frag.

Its biggest advantage there is range, and that you probably won't miss whichever random piece of cover you decide to shoot, but the trade off is a smaller shell.

Of course, when you DO id a target, the advantage is pretty enormous at longer ranges. In close it really depends on the training level. A good grenadier can put a grenade through a window at 50m without much difficulty, or get it to fall just behind a wall etc. If you don't have time to make good grenadiers, this is alot easier though.

So presumably, where this thing really shines is in that 100-250m bracket where you can still pick out targets, but regular grenade launchers start to lose accuracy.

[Wounded Ronin]

This is basically a continuation of the grenade part of the XM29, also known as OICW...

When I read the blurb my first thought that it was actually old news regarding the OICW.

Play Soldier of Fortune II. It has an OICW, but the lase mode is rather cumbersome and annoying to use in the middle of a firefight. That's awesome because the real John Mullins said in an interview how he thought the real OICW would be too cumbersome and annoying to use in the middle of a firefight. It's like in the game they made it annoying to use and borderline stupid instead of uber in order to try and be more realistic.

There is one level where I would always use it though, where it came in mighty handy. That was the Kamchatka level where the IFF system really helped in the low visibility areas, and where the ability to lase targets and fool around with grenade trajectories was useful in a couple of spots that had emplaced machine guns in buildings.

[Kagetenshi]

You know, this might be a pretty good weapon for defeating shooter detection systems. The microphones are generally on visible masts, but I think they're too small a target for useful engaging with ordinary rounds; you still lose the "no one notices they're being shot at until someone gets hit" bit, but pinpointing the source then has to proceed the old-fashioned way.

~J