Tetragrammaton Cleric, Can one be built for 300BP? Options

[WhiskeyJohnny]

First, I'd like to thank you all for your help with my combat hacker. He's easily one of the most fun characters I've ever played. But, in his backstory, he has a pair of sisters, one of whom lives with him (he took the Dependent Negative Quality). My GM has asked that I stat out the younger sister, just in case.

I'd like to make her an Adept who Dual Wields Pistols, and despite Orks being better, she must be Human. In addition to the stricture that she must be human, she must be able to speak Russian and English Fluently (or at least Russian, but her English must be good enough to run), she should be able to use guns in melee (either as clubs or with bayonets attached), and she must be able to both survive and be victorious in a fight with a 400 BP Giant Street Sam with a Ballistic/Impact armor of 30+.

So, Dumpshock, do you think this is doable for 300 BP?

Also, a little Backstory on the character, if you wish:

[ Spoiler ]

Yelena Nevsky was born in St. Petersburg, Russia, and moved with her family to the United States at age 8. She is a second generation Runner (that is, her parents were runners) and has lived in New York for the last decade. She now attends University in Denver, and lives with her elder brother (my main character). She's more than a little spoiled (being the baby of the family) but she's an expert gunslinger, preferring pistols (or machine pistols, if that would be mechanically superior).

[klinktastic]

Definitely be easier to not dual wield since you're probably sacrificing attack dice. To keep her survivable, gymnastics 4 + synthacardium 3 + reaction 4 + improved physical skill 2 = 13 gymnastic dodge dice. If you hyperspecialize her, she's going to only have combat skills. I'd recommend lower-ish magic, maybe 4, reduced to 3 due to 'wares.

[WhiskeyJohnny]

Definitely be easier to not dual wield since you're probably sacrificing attack dice. To keep her survivable, gymnastics 4 + synthacardium 3 + reaction 4 + improved physical skill 2 = 13 gymnastic dodge dice. If you hyperspecialize her, she's going to only have combat skills. I'd recommend lower-ish magic, maybe 4, reduced to 3 due to 'wares.

Yeah, that's probably true. Though doesn't the Adept Improved Guns Skill or whatever it is apply to both guns, instead of getting split? Would that be a way of keeping my dice pools up while dual wielding? Is there any advantage to dual wielding, other than looking cool?

Oh, and would this character be more doable with 350 or 400 BP to spend? I don't know the first thing about Adepts, so she will serve as a bit of a primer for me.

[Neraph]

From my archives...:

[ Spoiler ]

Human (0 BP)

Attributes (230 BP)
B 4 [30]
A 5 [40]
R 4 [30]
S 2 [10]
C 2 [10]
I 4 [30]
L 3 [20]
W 4 [30]
Ess 5.30
Edge 5 [30]


Qualities (+10 BP)
Firefight 2 [10]
Krav Maga 2 [10]
Genecrafted [5]
In Debt [+25]
Wanted [+10]


Maneuvers (8 BP)
Off-Hand Training (Clubs) [2]
Two Weapon Style [2]
Watchful Guard [2]
Riposte [2]


Skills (134 BP)
Pistols (Semi Auto) 5 [22]
Clubs (Parrying) 5 [22]
Armorer 4 [16]
Perception 4 [16]
Gymnastics (Dodge) 3 [14]
Infiltration 3 [12]
Pilot Groundcraft 2 [8]
Unarmed 3 [12]
Automatics 3 [12]


Contacts (12 BP)[C/L]
Arms Dealer 2/4
Fixer 3/3


Equipment (26 BP)
107,000 Remaining


Geneware
Reakt 0.4 [10, 24,000]
Synch 0.3 [8, 24,000]


Notes
Betameth [3R, 20]
Oxygenated Flourocarbons [-, 2,000]
Cram [2R, 10] /or/ Jazz [2R, 75]

Example Gun:
Ares Predator IV [4R, 350]
Melee Hardening [4, 300]
Personalized Grip [2, 100]
Av: 4R
Cost: 750

Using the above drugs, we have:
25 dice for a full parry, in which we still get to attack our next turn.
18 dice for a point blank attack roll, which can include a Riposte.
13 dice for a Gymnastics Dodge, for non-melee defense.

With the 107k left over, we can also afford a decent amount of bio/cyber, if you are so inclined.

Tactics: Quick draw your pistols. Wait to be attacked. Parry, then Riposte with a pistol shot. Dual-wielding Ares Predators, you can do this 30 times before you need to reload.

Tweak where needed. Maybe drop some skills a point or two, maybe a stat by one or two, ect. Most of the BP for cash can be removed.

EDIT: You can cut Armorer and Pilot Ground Craft completely (24); Agi, Rea, Ed by 1 each (30); lose a point of Krav (5); and I'm not sure how many points of money and you're almost done. Maybe drop a couple points off some other skills or stats.

[WhiskeyJohnny]

From my archives...:

[ Spoiler ]

Human (0 BP)

Attributes (230 BP)
B 4 [30]
A 5 [40]
R 4 [30]
S 2 [10]
C 2 [10]
I 4 [30]
L 3 [20]
W 4 [30]
Ess 5.30
Edge 5 [30]


Qualities (+10 BP)
Firefight 2 [10]
Krav Maga 2 [10]
Genecrafted [5]
In Debt [+25]
Wanted [+10]


Maneuvers (8 BP)
Off-Hand Training (Clubs) [2]
Two Weapon Style [2]
Watchful Guard [2]
Riposte [2]


Skills (134 BP)
Pistols (Semi Auto) 5 [22]
Clubs (Parrying) 5 [22]
Armorer 4 [16]
Perception 4 [16]
Gymnastics (Dodge) 3 [14]
Infiltration 3 [12]
Pilot Groundcraft 2 [8]
Unarmed 3 [12]
Automatics 3 [12]


Contacts (12 BP)[C/L]
Arms Dealer 2/4
Fixer 3/3


Equipment (26 BP)
107,000 Remaining


Geneware
Reakt 0.4 [10, 24,000]
Synch 0.3 [8, 24,000]


Notes
Betameth [3R, 20]
Oxygenated Flourocarbons [-, 2,000]
Cram [2R, 10] /or/ Jazz [2R, 75]

Example Gun:
Ares Predator IV [4R, 350]
Melee Hardening [4, 300]
Personalized Grip [2, 100]
Av: 4R
Cost: 750

Using the above drugs, we have:
25 dice for a full parry, in which we still get to attack our next turn.
18 dice for a point blank attack roll, which can include a Riposte.
13 dice for a Gymnastics Dodge, for non-melee defense.

With the 107k left over, we can also afford a decent amount of bio/cyber, if you are so inclined.

Tactics: Quick draw your pistols. Wait to be attacked. Parry, then Riposte with a pistol shot. Dual-wielding Ares Predators, you can do this 30 times before you need to reload.

Tweak where needed. Maybe drop some skills a point or two, maybe a stat by one or two, ect. Most of the BP for cash can be removed.

Ok, cool. I'll look this over, see what tweaks need to be made. Also, this build isn't an Adept, so maybe some Adept Abilities can be added (in place of the 107,000 nuyen).

[Neraph]

The reason it wasn't an Adept is because he's Genetweaked. I figured the geneware would be actually more beneficial and it would not be a MagicRun Character. Most characters I've ever seen are Magician/(Mystic) Adept.

EDIT: But yea, I gracefully empart 'pon thee mine most favoured character build; an' all the peasants say 'Yea.'

[WhiskeyJohnny]

The reason it wasn't an Adept is because he's Genetweaked. I figured the geneware would be actually more beneficial and it would not be a MagicRun Character. Most characters I've ever seen are Magician/(Mystic) Adept.

EDIT: But yea, I gracefully empart 'pon thee mine most favoured character build; an' all the peasants say 'Yea.'

Does being Genetweaked make being an Adept an impossibility? I thought geneware just took away essence, like any other 'ware.

And I doth appreciate thine most favoured character build, for it shalt help me greatly in mine quest.

[Karoline]

Her being a virtual mini-runner seems to be in a bit of contrast to being a 'dependent', though I suppose not necessarily. Just potentially a bit odd.

Oh well. I should start by pointing out that adept improved ability adds before the split for using two weapons because it is a direct modification to the skill itself. Very little adds after the split, but alot of stuff gets taken away after the split (Visibility modifiers, wound modifiers, range modifiers, etc). Now, that said, she is young and not a real runner and everyone has to start somewhere. She might dual wield more because she is training at it and/or thinks it looks cool than because she can actually hit anything outside a shooting range environment.

[Neraph]

You know I'm just waiting to unleash the build variant I have of this as a troll dual-wielding sniper rifles. Model-121's with APDS rounds... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/vegm.gif)

[WhiskeyJohnny]

Her being a virtual mini-runner seems to be in a bit of contrast to being a 'dependent', though I suppose not necessarily. Just potentially a bit odd.

Oh well. I should start by pointing out that adept improved ability adds before the split for using two weapons because it is a direct modification to the skill itself. Very little adds after the split, but alot of stuff gets taken away after the split (Visibility modifiers, wound modifiers, range modifiers, etc). Now, that said, she is young and not a real runner and everyone has to start somewhere. She might dual wield more because she is training at it and/or thinks it looks cool than because she can actually hit anything outside a shooting range environment.

Yeah, but she's also a full time student. She doesn't run yet, but the skills to survive have been drilled into her from a young age (those crazy runner parents, you know the type). She lives with her brother and he pays for her living costs, hence, she is his dependent. She's rather independent for a dependent, but she's still his baby sister.

If dual wielding isn't effective generally, I'm willing to drop it as a requirement. I see the strong possibility of her fighting the party's Giant Street Sam, so I need her to be able to deal with him, if need be.

You know I'm just waiting to unleash the build variant I have of this as a troll dual-wielding sniper rifles. Model-121's with APDS rounds... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/vegm.gif)

What?

Why?

Why would you do such a thing?
...And do they make APDS rounds in pistol calibers?

[Neraph]

No no no, dual wielding done right is thus: using a melee hardened pistol in each hand in conjunction with the Two Weapon Style maneuver and Riposte. Shooting with both guns at once is just stupid unless you build for it, and even then isn't as good as the alternative.

(also: Go Go Typing With One Hand While Eating!)

[WhiskeyJohnny]

No no no, dual wielding done right is thus: using a melee hardened pistol in each hand in conjunction with the Two Weapon Style maneuver and Riposte. Shooting with both guns at once is just stupid unless you build for it, and even then isn't as good as the alternative.

(also: Go Go Typing With One Hand While Eating!)

Where are these Two Weapon Style and Riposte maneuvers? And could I Riposte by shooting them point blank in the face?

[Neraph]

Page 160, Arsenal. And yes, yes you can. In fact, I have those dicepools listed at the end of the sample character I posted.

[WhiskeyJohnny]

Page 160, Arsenal. And yes, yes you can. In fact, I have those dicepools listed at the end of the sample character I posted.

Cool. And I would split those dice pools if using two weapons? Is there a guide to effective dual wielding somewhere?

[Zyerne]

Getting through the Sam's 30 odd armor is going to be the problem. If you can get away with long bursts rather than full bursts then taking 2 fully recoil comped high velocity machine pistols is another option for dual weilding, as long as you only fire them one at a time.

Loaded with APDS of course.

However, taking him out from a rooftop with a Barrett might be a better option (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[WhiskeyJohnny]

Getting through the Sam's 30 odd armor is going to be the problem. If you can get away with long bursts rather than full bursts then taking 2 fully recoil comped high velocity machine pistols is another option for dual weilding, as long as you only fire them one at a time.

Loaded with APDS of course.

However, taking him out from a rooftop with a Barrett might be a better option (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

The trouble is its likely to be a spur of the moment kind of thing, so I won't be able to do much setup (beyond APDS rounds, having the guns, that sort of thing). Otherwise I would have my main character take him out, by sicking the proper authorities on him (homicide by cop?), or several drones with assault cannons all trained on the street sam (I knew I put that laser designator in my eyeball for something).

[Neraph]

Cool. And I would split those dice pools if using two weapons? Is there a guide to effective dual wielding somewhere?

No. Using Two Weapon Style you're able to declare a Fully Parry with one of your weapons without giving up your next action like normal. IE: I'm TWS with Right arm, attacking with Left.

Riposte works when you successfully parry with a weapon - you can then give up your next action to attack. IE: above example - someone attacked me and I Parried, then I give up my next action to shoot him with my Left arm.

There's no dicepool splitting, as you're not attacking with both weapons at the same time, although an Offhand Penalty does still apply (unless you have Ambidexterity or Offhand Training).

[Neraph]

Loaded with APDS of course.

SnS ammo would work better. Capsule rounds with Slab work best.

[Zyerne]

The obvious question that hasn't been asked is why the need to take this guy out?

[WhiskeyJohnny]

SnS ammo would work better. Capsule rounds with Slab work best.

What's Slab? And how does that help me get around his ridiculous armor?

The obvious question that hasn't been asked is why the need to take this guy out?

Well, see, I'm just being prepared. His last character needed to be taken out, and it fell to me, so I attempted the previously mentioned Homicide-by-Cop method. I spent several days in the hospital, and he got away. I'd rather not have that happen again.

Also, he's technically working for the Vory (to whom I am In Debt) in the capacity of bill collector, and made some threatening statements concerning little Yelena's safety if I fail to pay back my debts. So I see trouble coming, and want to be prepared.

[Neraph]

What's Slab? And how does that help me get around his ridiculous armor?

Slab is a drug from Arsenal (you really need to read that book). When under its effects (and unless that guy has a Chemical Seal on his armor, he will be) you appear as dead - people need to make a First Aid Test to see that you're not dead. It lasts for like 10 - Bod hours, minimum 1. Technically, since it is a drug, there's no Test to resist against it; however, the Core Book (IIRC) mentions allowing Chemical Resistance Tests if you don't want to get high from something - in this case I'd make it a Power 8 or 10 drug that if you don't fully resist it you suffer the full effects.

Otherwise Narcoject, Pepper Punch, CS Gas, and other toxins would be your best bet against high bod/armor foes. Chances are they don't have Chemical Protection because your GM hasn't thought of it.

[Udoshi]

You know I'm just waiting to unleash the build variant I have of this as a troll dual-wielding sniper rifles. Model-121's with APDS rounds... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/vegm.gif)

While thats awesome, I've been thinking about a shiva'd troll gunslinger using shotguns as pistols. Really! they're just troll sized revolvers!
All six of them!
At once!
On short burstfire!
...and using Adept Centering to get rid of the '-2(-1 for trolls) for using an oversize weapon in one hand' penalty in arsenal.

It starts to get fun when you play with the Choke settings. Flechette Hurricane.

[Medicineman]

.....

I'd like to make her an Adept who Dual Wields Pistols, and despite Orks being better, she must be Human. In addition to the stricture that she must be human, she must be able to speak Russian and English Fluently (or at least Russian, but her English must be good enough to run), she should be able to use guns in melee (either as clubs or with bayonets attached), and she must be able to both survive and be victorious in a fight with a 400 BP Giant Street Sam with a Ballistic/Impact armor of 30+.

So, Dumpshock, do you think this is doable for 300 BP?

Also, a little Backstory on the character, if you wish:
.... She's more than a little spoiled (being the baby of the family) but she's an expert gunslinger, preferring pistols ....

You can't be serious
300 BP and better than a Min/Maxed 400 BP Samurai ?
300 BP and an Expert Gunslinger.... ?
If You consider s.o. with an AGI of 4 and a Skill of 4 (thats 8 Dice) as Expert Ok, but the 400 GP Samurai can easily sum up 10 -12 Dice
300 BP means only 150 BP for Attributes and you need 160 for an average Human being
so she starts below average and should be better than that Streetsam with 30+ Armor ( = BOD 12+ = Troll )

So You're asking for an impossible task and for what....?
For a NPC ,a Background ....

No WHAY ,Jose
Do It yourself !

with an insulted Dance
Medicineman

[WhiskeyJohnny]

You can't be serious
300 BP and better than a Min/Maxed 400 BP Samurai ?
300 BP and an Expert Gunslinger.... ?
If You consider s.o. with an AGI of 4 and a Skill of 4 (thats 8 Dice) as Expert Ok, but the 400 GP Samurai can easily sum up 10 -12 Dice
300 BP means only 150 BP for Attributes and you need 160 for an average Human being
so she starts below average and should be better than that Streetsam with 30+ Armor ( = BOD 12+ = Troll )

So You're asking for an impossible task and for what....?
For a NPC ,a Background ....

No WHAY ,Jose
Do It yourself !

with an insulted Dance
Medicineman

Well, I got permission from the GM to build her as a full 400 BP character (she's basically my backup). So how about then? And the Giant isn't Min/Maxed, he just has a pretty ridiculous Body+Armor. He's not the greatest melee combatant (he rolls 13-14 dice for melee attacks, I think) and doesn't have anything in parry, so as long as I can get past his ridiculous damage soak I should be ok.

[Medicineman]

Ok,
with even Grounds thats way better
And If its your Back up char than there is a reason to work on it (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

And the Giant isn't Min/Maxed, he just has a pretty ridiculous Body+Armor.
That IS one of the Definitions of Min/Maxing.
Maximising one positive Aspect(the Armor/Protection Aspect) and/or Minimising negative Aspects

He's not the greatest melee combatant (he rolls 13-14 dice for melee attacks, I think)
13-14 Dice is really Good !

and doesn't have anything in parry
thats not possible If he has a Skill (and with 14 Dice he HAS a Skill !) he can also parry !
so she must be Human female and a Gunslinger....
can she get restricted Gear (for Suprathyroid Gland and for Muscletoner 4 )
can she be surged ?
If Yes ,we can make her AGI 8(12)
with Pistols 6 ,Reflexrecorder and Specialisation we can get 21 Dice
STR 3 pimped RSW with Smart,Smartmotor, explo and APDS Ammo....no that wont be Enough
...Cybertorso with Cybergyro, Weaponsarm and Pimped Full Auto Enfield AS7 with APDS or XX- Ammo
but than she is no Gunslinger but a Weaponsplatform
GUNSLINGER (means Pistols,Revolvers,etc. SMALL ARMS in General ,base Damage 5-6K with Ammo maybe 7K
30 Armor (and BOD 10-12) means 42 Soakdice thats 14-15 Successes....
still Impossible ImO
.....Maybe(just Maybe) if she is Jane Lucky(Edge 8 ) and we use up all the Edge.....
7K with 30 Dice and Rule of 6.....Maybe


Hough!
Medicineman