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[Toptomcat]

By default, is there any kind of visual effect at all attached to combat mana spells like Stunball and Stunbolt?

[Stahlseele]

Aside from People dropping like flies?
No, nothing noticeable, why do you ask? O.o

[Apathy]

The nature of the effect isn't stated, but with a perception threshhold of 6-force (somebody correct me if I'm mis-remembering... don't have books handy), a powerful spell is pretty noticible. Actual effect is GM discretion, but I few I might use are:

• You see shamanic mask on caster.
• You feel the hairs on the back of your neck rise and inexplicably know that the source of your unease is the guy in the red shirt.
• Joe face takes on a look of deep concentration and you notice a faint visible aura flicker momentarily around him.
• As the johnson looks at Tim, you suddenly smell the odor of brimstone wafting off him and feel and unexplainable vibration within your body.
• The sec guard gives you a puzzled expression and suddenly explodes, spraying gobbets of flesh and bone around the room.

Ok, well maybe not the last one.

[Adarael]

Generally, I've described high-force direct combat spells has having a "lensing" type effect on the air round the target and caster, a bit like a bomb's overpressure wave, to represent the fact that it's easy to notice a Force 6 Manabolt. An example of that kind of blast wave is the warp around this car: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gSlam6cq9P8

Also, I tend to describe wounds on the target being spontaneous bleeding, in the case of mana effects, and broken bones/torn flesh for physical effects. Just cuz that's how I expect it to be.

There's no bright flashing lights, though. There's not even a guaranteed visual effect - I just happen to stylistically like a visual effect as part of it.

[Hagga]

I'd keep it subtle for the 'stun' series - hairs on the back of the neck, goose bumps, flickers at the corners of your eyes..

A higher force powerbolt, on the other hand, might look like someone's busy replicating dragon ball Z right there next to you.

[LurkerOutThere]

Off the top of my head the rule to notice spells going off is a intuition + perception (6 - Force) hits. So i'd say yes. In SR you tend to glow and be very flashy about magic.

[sgtbarnes_ky]

I would say the art supports it to as all the exterior/interior art for SR has always show mageic/spells being a physical display. Lurker brings up a great point with the RAW, since the higher the force the easier it is to spot. So use your imagination for visual discription of what it looks like. Make it a technocolored as you want, I prefer bright Neon lights

[Brainpiercing7.6...]

Ok, so next question: How visible are combat mana spells when the caster is invisible himself?

While the balance aspects of the cited rule are certainly worthwhile, I just think it often doesn't make sense. I guess they just definitely didn't want mages to be stealthy.

[Mäx]

Ok, so next question: How visible are combat mana spells when the caster is invisible himself?

In that situation people can easily notice where the spell comes from(unless its very low force), but they still can't see the mage.

[Thanee]

By default, is there any kind of visual effect at all attached to combat mana spells like Stunball and Stunbolt?

Yes.

As LurkerOutThere said, there is a paragraph about Noticing Magic in the Magic section of the rulebook (p. 179 SR4A).

"Noticing if someone is using a magical skill requires a Perception Test (p. 135) with a threshold equal to 6 minus the magic’s Force. More powerful magic is easier to spot with the gathered mana normally appearing as a disturbance or glowing aura in the air around the caster."

Bye
Thanee

[Brainpiercing7.6...]

In that situation people can easily notice where the spell comes from(unless its very low force), but they still can't see the mage.

Oh, but they can certainly make educated guesses, and throw some wide-bursts his way. If someone were to ready an action to do that I would drastically reduce the blind fire penalties.

[Brazilian_Shinob...]

Oh, but they can certainly make educated guesses, and throw some wide-bursts his way. If someone were to ready an action to do that I would drastically reduce the blind fire penalties.

Grenades and supressive fire are other good ways to do this.

[Dakka Dakka]

Invisible spellcasting has become a lot more difficult because of the sparkles SR4A introduced. In earlier editions including SR4, only the caster not the magic itself gave away clues. IMHO that's the way it should be. The sweating and frowning is obvious enough as it is.

[sabs]

Oh, but they can certainly make educated guesses, and throw some wide-bursts his way. If someone were to ready an action to do that I would drastically reduce the blind fire penalties.

For situations like that I like to use suppression fire.
It solves the issues with blind fire, etc.

[Rystefn]

It's especially funny when the mage is overcasting at Force7+. I had a mage once think he could go around a corner and no one would notice that he was casting at Force 8. He just didn't get that Perception Tests with a threshold of -2 are passed by sleeping people, astrally projecting mages, and full-immersion riggers. In the end, we had to resort to describing the effects as "No, you don't chant and wave your arms around. You're right, this isn't D&D. It's still fucking hard to hide your spell when it causes you to float three feet off the ground on a throne of flaming skulls and blots out the sun with clouds of hate and lightning."

Of course, this set a hilarious precedent for future casters and a contest of one-upsmanship on describing the special effects for high-level spells.

[pbangarth]

You're right, this isn't D&D. It's still fucking hard to hide your spell when it causes you to float three feet off the ground on a throne of flaming skulls and blots out the sun with clouds of hate and lightning."

I like that image. I'll work on that for my Free Spirit Magician.

[Stahlseele]

It's especially funny when the mage is overcasting at Force7+. I had a mage once think he could go around a corner and no one would notice that he was casting at Force 8. He just didn't get that Perception Tests with a threshold of -2 are passed by sleeping people, astrally projecting mages, and full-immersion riggers. In the end, we had to resort to describing the effects as "No, you don't chant and wave your arms around. You're right, this isn't D&D. It's still fucking hard to hide your spell when it causes you to float three feet off the ground on a throne of flaming skulls and blots out the sun with clouds of hate and lightning."

Of course, this set a hilarious precedent for future casters and a contest of one-upsmanship on describing the special effects for high-level spells.

Extra Karma i hope? ^^

[Rystefn]

Extra Karma i hope? ^^

It was a pure sport, pursued merely for the joy of excellence. Why sully it with rewards? Besides, after a few years, a game gets pretty Karma-flush anyway.

[Stahlseele]

'cause it's ingenious and adds another bit of fun to the game ^^

[Stormdrake]

Just so I can remind my players what page was the 6-force perceptionb test described on in the 4A edition?

[Brazilian_Shinob...]

Page 168 of SR4.

[Mäx]

Page 168 of SR4.

and 179 in SR4A

[Stormdrake]

Can a spell (instant or sustained) be Masked? I know ancored spells can be masked but instant or sustained spells I wold say no but can't really find anything saying one way or another.

[Dakka Dakka]

Why not with extended masking?

[Brainpiercing7.6...]

"No, you don't chant and wave your arms around. You're right, this isn't D&D. It's still fucking hard to hide your spell when it causes you to float three feet off the ground on a throne of flaming skulls and blots out the sun with clouds of hate and lightning."

Crap it really has to be like that. Everytime one of those pixie bastids throw their force 11 stunbolts, what actually happens is their targets are struck by lightning and the pixies turn into giant... giant pixies. And EVERYONE within a city block will notice.

Is there ANY other precedent for a negative threshold?