Customised cyberlimbs, RAI? Options

[Zyerne]

As far as I can tell, RAW for customised cyberlimbs is you can customise them to natural limits with no attention paid to what your actual physical stats are. I.E with a Agility of 3, you can customise to 6.

Now, the 2 examples I've just looked at in 4A have them matching current physical stats - The street sam sample and the example in the customisation section for the limbs. I'm pretty sure this is RAI.

Thoughts?

[Yerameyahu]

Presumably, yes. Anything too good to be true, isn't. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Karoline]

Well, from all the description about customized cyberlimbs the RAI is that it is fitted to match your actual stats, but the RAW very very clearly doesn't have a limitation like that. With such a large discrepancy I think what happened is that the fluff reason that customized cyberlimbs were invented was to accommodate trolls/orks, but at some point runners (and others) figured out that you could slap that troll grade limb onto a human even if the human wasn't super buff, within limits of course.

So, I don't know if RAI is really that it matches stats, or that RAI intended for people to take advantage of cyberlimbs in this way.

Honestly from as much as I hear people gripe about how useless cyberlimbs are, I don't see any reason not to allow this.

[Zyerne]

Except for the people that bolt on 4 of them to build body 9 armoured tanks on a meat body of 1, no complaining there (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I generally customise to current augmented or natural max, whichever is lower, but that's personal preference. RAW is, as you said, pretty clear. I was just curious on what people thought RAI might have been.

[Karoline]

I think those are mostly experiments in 'see, cyberlimbs can be useful' than real character concepts.

As I said, RAI is hard to tell, because the fluff states fairly clearly what they were intended for, but RAW quite clearly says it can be used for other things. Due to the number of errors and such in the game in general, it is hard to say if they did this intentionally or not.

My personal guess though is that RAI is RAW in this case. But I could easily be wrong.

[Zyerne]

Where does the cyberlimbs are useless thing come from? Two characters I'm building right now both have them, one full, one partial.

[Mäx]

Except for the people that bolt on 4 of them to build body 9 armoured tanks on a meat body of 1.

Oh yeah thats a real smart plan, just make sure you nver get anywhere near a toxin of anykind or your finished (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Sengir]

I see customized cyberlimbs as an option to save capacity, with the tradeoff of a significantly higher price. So customizing a limb over natural stats is fine for me.

[Dakka Dakka]

Where does the cyberlimbs are useless thing come from? Two characters I'm building right now both have them, one full, one partial.

To be effective you have two options with cyberlimbs:
1.)Take one partial limb to get essence reduction for certain pieces of ware.
2.) Go full replacement.
Everything in between will seriously hurt your attributes. Average or minimum in most situations is pretty bad unless you pay additional BP/Karma to get the meat attributes up as well.

[StealthSigma]

As far as I can tell, RAW for customised cyberlimbs is you can customise them to natural limits with no attention paid to what your actual physical stats are. I.E with a Agility of 3, you can customise to 6.

Now, the 2 examples I've just looked at in 4A have them matching current physical stats - The street sam sample and the example in the customisation section for the limbs. I'm pretty sure this is RAI.

Thoughts?

It's necessary in or to accomidate metatypes with high augmented values. If every cyberlimb started at 3 and you had to use capacity to up strength/agility/body a maximum of 7 points, then you would be unable to ever achieve an attribute higher than 10 with a cyberlimb.

Now, the only reason to use a custom cyberlimb to increase an attribute is if your augmented max for that attribute is higher than 10, or the limb doesn't have enough capacity to support all the tricks you want plus the cyberlimb enhancement. Customization is vastly more expensive than using the enhancement. It's already pretty trivial to get strength and agility above the natural max via augments and those augments are ignored for the purpose of strength and agility on the limb.

I see no problem with cyberlimb enhancements with strength and agility. I have only minor issue with cyberlimb customization for body due to the lack of ways to directly increase body.

[Mäx]

Everything in between will seriously hurt your attributes. Average or minimum in most situations is pretty bad unless you pay additional BP/Karma to get the meat attributes up as well.

I don't know, my Sasha has one full arm and it has better stats overalll then rest of her, so not hurting stats at all and actually she has 2 more agility when shooting with that arm.
Ofcource from min/max perspective it's still un optimal, as i could have used the money spend on the arm to raise her agility by that 2 points by upping her muscle toner to rating 4 :cyber

Edit: changed hand to arm

[Dakka Dakka]

I don't know, my Sasha has one full hand and it has better stats overalll then rest of her, so not hurting stats at all and actually she has 2 more agility when shooting with that hand.

Then you have a very generous/lenient GM. Stats of partial limbs should only be used if only that partial limb is doing an action. To me shooting involves mre than just the hand. With rifles or other two-handed weapons you could easily argue "careful coordination of several limbs" and thus force the player to take the minimum.

Ofcource from min/max perspective it's still un optimal, as i could have used the money spend on the hand to raise her agility by that 2 points by upping her muscle toner to rating 4 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cyber.gif)

My point exactly.

[Draco18s]

and actually she has 2 more agility when shooting with that hand.

That part is debatable. Does shooting only require your hand (fingers/wrist), or does it need your full arm?

I bet shooting a pistol uses your full arm, thus no bonus agility. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Also, he said "partial limb." A cyberhand is a "partial limb." Because what he said was "partial limb" or "full body."

[Laodicea]

"I do not aim with my eye. One who aims with his eye has forgotten the face of his Father.

I do not shoot with my hand. One who shoots with his hand has forgotten the face of his Father.

I do not kill with my gun. One who kills with his gun has forgotten the face of his Father. I kill with my heart."

[Dakka Dakka]

Where is that quote from?

[Doc Chase]

Where is that quote from?

The Gunslinger, by Stephen King.

[Laodicea]

The Gunslinger, by Stephen King.

Right, but its actually entitled The Dark Tower.

[Doc Chase]

Well if you want to be pedantic, the series is named The Dark Tower, the first book is titled The Gunslinger.

[Laodicea]

Fair enough.

[Yerameyahu]

Hehe, and it's *entitled*, apparently. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Doc Chase]

Hehe, and it's *entitled*, apparently. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Apparently it's *entitled,* hehe.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[Yerameyahu]

Hey, you stole my comma! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif)

[Doc Chase]

I did. I tied it all up with rope and a pretty bow on top, and left it on the train tracks.

I await its rescue, while I wring my hands and cackle all the while.

[Laodicea]

You may have left it on the train tracks, but this thread has gone off the rails!

[Doc Chase]

You may have left it on the train tracks, but this thread has gone off the rails!

...That was completely unintentional and I tip my hat to you for highlighting it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)