How do you immortal? Options

[Bombastic 451]

I have a new player coming in, and he want's to play a hundred years plus old elf. I've explained to him that the only way I know for that to happen is if he was one of the immortals. I'm looking for info on how to do that out side of a spirit-pact, and whether that is acceptable for a PC. Any tips would be greatly appreciated.

[Snow_Fox]

tips? yeah, tell him no.
Reign him in from the start of tell the others to show up dressed in chicken suits prepared to choose between what's in the box or behind the curtain. The immortals are incredibly rare and powerful. 100 years old means he was born around the american bicentenial-well before the UGE but long after the spike babies. He'd have been a freak.

[jaellot]

Yeah, ditto to that, honestly.

I wouldn't see a problem of playing one of the first generation elves/dwarves, when mana was returning and all that. Around 2011? So they could be in their early 60's. Think it would be fun to see, really.

[Critias]

*shrugs*

Just sounds like a Spike Baby to me. That's well under the known elven old age issue, there's no need for him to be an Immortal Elf about it, or have Immunity: Disease, a higher Essence, or anything else extra.

If he really wants to be able to say he was born in 1973, let him, but I'd make sure to nip it in the bud if he starts to say the "yeah, but that means I should know ______" all the time without spending the points to back it up. If he just wants to be 100 years old, let him. If he wants extra shit for it, that's when you nip it in the bud.

[Bombastic 451]

tips? yeah, tell him no.
Reign him in from the tsart of tell the others to show up dressed in chicken suits prepared to choose between what's in the box or behind the curtain. The immortals are incredibly rare and powerful. 100 years old means he was born around the american bicentenial-well before the UGE but long after the spike babies. He'd have been a freak.

We've been talking about this since I posted. 500 years old does seem out of the question. 100 years old is still on the fence. Chicken suit's...Man, what kind of game to you play?

[Snow_Fox]

you're showing your age-or rather the lack of your's and the level of mine, most ungallant.

[Bombastic 451]

you're showing your age-or rather the lack of your's and the level of mine, most ungallant.

Ungallant is what I do. And I get the Let's Make A Deal reference. I'm just saying, it sounds like you're session table would be fun to sit at.

[Bombastic 451]

My player and I are currently discussing the effects of being an elf born in the wrong century, so that seems to be settled at the moment. However, I'm still not sure where to look for compressive info on the Immortals. My curiosity is peaked now, and I'd like to know what I should read to get a good grasp on the subject.

[Jhaiisiin]

Really, the immortal elves are plot devices, not player characters. There's not a lot of information on them other than "They are very powerful."

Could he be a brand new immortal born 100 years ago? In theory, but magic levels were so low as to make the concept nigh impossible. I agree with the others: Nix it.

[Bombastic 451]

Really, the immortal elves are plot devices, not player characters. There's not a lot of information on them other than "They are very powerful."

Could he be a brand new immortal born 100 years ago? In theory, but magic levels were so low as to make the concept nigh impossible. I agree with the others: Nix it.

What I'm current talking about is an anomaly born due to an abnormal mana spike during the latter half of the 19th century. He is not an immortal. Don't worry, I'm not that thick headed.

However, I still have to plead screaming ignorance on the subject of immortals. I assumed that there is supportive material out there about them. I'm just asking, what rule book, or novel should I read to get the best understanding about immortals?

[Warlordtheft]

I wouldn't nix it entirely, there are hints that as 2011 got closer, the number of spike babies went up. It is also rumored that Ehran or some of the other Tir Princes were around at that time and were collecting the youngins in special boarding schools in preparation for the formation of the Tir.

Got to remember elves can live to be 300 (at least that is what science says) and they don't begin to look old until the last 100.

Also make sure if he wants to know X he puts rank in skill x.

Suggested reading is the book on the Tir. IIRC that were this info comes from.

[Critias]

There are mention of them in quite a few products. There aren't really "rules" for them or something, because they're not that sort of thing. As others have alluded to, the true Immortal Elves are plot devices with legs and pointy ears. They're not meant to be player characters, and they're not even really non-player characters, for the most part -- the ones that are old old are ridiculously powerful, had major NPC-scale stats back in the Earthdawn days, and are fodder for conspiracy theorists (both in and out of the Shadowrun universe).

For a novel with some info, I'd suggest Never Trust and Elf or Worlds Without End. For sourcebooks with some hints and whispers about them (the most concentrated hints and whispers, I should say, far from all of them!) check out Portfolio of a Dragon, Tir Tairngire, and some Harlequin and Harlequin's Back (of course).

Basically they're walking plot devices, that bridged the gap between the Earthdawn line of games and the Shadowrun line of games, by being survivors from the one into the other. Them mucking about in the affairs of player characters is kind of like a kid shaking his ant farm.

But -- again -- Immortal Elves don't need to have anything to do with this particular PC. He's just another "Spike Baby" in this instance (an elf that squirted out when the mana "spiked" just high enough to allow them). If you want to talk to the player and he wants to spend the points on some interesting Contacts or knowledge skills, more power to ya, but otherwise there's really no reason to treat him differently than any other player character.

[MJBurrage]

See Spike Baby at the Sixth World Wiki.

If the character is from the Pacific Northwest, they probably spent time at Sean Laverty's Xavier Foundation.

[Bombastic 451]

Thanks to Critias. I'm sure I can quell my curiosity on Immortals now. Thanks to everyone who replied, Bombastic 451 out.

[Sinboy666]

One of our players in an older campaign had a great background...

basically, as a 90 something year old man, he felt a tightness in his chest, more than ready to meet his maker, he laid down and prepared to die. But he didn't, instead he woke up and was transformed into a much younger and pointy eared version of himself.

I always figured that's how they explain the "Several hundred years" life span for elves in the SR core books.

[Starmage21]

The problem with Dumpshock (as I understand it), is that these guys will tell you NOT to do something because it might seem convoluted or contrived or just because it might require any stretch of imagination regarding the canon.


I say fuck em. Allow your player to choose the Elf metatype, paying the appropriate cost, and then assess an appropriate cost for a positive quality which emulates the Immunity(Age, Pathogens, Toxins) power. BOOM Immortal Elf.

[Yerameyahu]

Actually, it's when it might require wrecking the setting and balance for no good reason. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) And 'contrived' means 'lame'. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Starmage21]

Actually, it's when it might require wrecking the setting and balance for no good reason. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) And 'contrived' means 'lame'. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

I fail to see how this instance requires wrecking the setting.

All known immortal elves are powerful does not necessarily mean all immortal elves are powerful, and there is nothing to support either argument.

Theres also absolutely nothing out of balance if the player payed appropriate amount of points for a quality. Age has never really been a factor in any game setting as far as I can recall.

[Critias]

While that's not a bad idea, Sinboy666, that's just plain not how it's been described. Elves are born elves (they don't mutate into them), and they just...stay young. They look to be about late teens, early twenties, for a long, long, time. They stay in their physical peak, they don't age and then regress and then age again, or anything like that.

I mean, it's a cool idea for a special one-off of a character concept, but it's not how it's done by canon or anything.

The problem with Dumpshock (as I understand it), is that these guys will tell you NOT to do something because it might seem convoluted or contrived or just because it might require any stretch of imagination regarding the canon.

I say fuck em. Allow your player to choose the Elf metatype, paying the appropriate cost, and then assess an appropriate cost for a positive quality which emulates the Immunity(Age, Pathogens, Toxins) power. BOOM Immortal Elf.

It's not a matter of imagination or convolution, but one of game balance. "Immortal Elf" has a certain meaning to it, just like "Ivy League" or "Luxury Sedan." A community college is not Harvard, and a Chevy Cavalier isn't a BMW or a Lexus. Words mean things, both in-game and out of it, and there is a whole lot more to being a properly capitalized Immortal Elf than just being born before 2011 and never catching cold.

To prevent confusion on that point, as such, and especially because the character hasn't actually asked to be a member of the Immortal Elf club, just "an Elf that's more than 100 years old," I really, really, think Spike Baby is the way to go. It's simple, it's canon, and it doesn't really rock the boat very much. The character gets what he wants, the GM isn't bending over backwards to explain by Lofwyr or someone hasn't prison-raped the starting character with the overpowered background, and everyone wins.

[Yerameyahu]

You included Pathogens and Toxins, which rather are a factor in most games. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) And then, as Critias explained, you said, 'Immortal Elf', which literally means 'crazy powerful half-dragon beings'.

And I was speaking in general, just as you were generalizing that all of Dumpshock is unimaginative (and anti-convoluted/-contrived, but those are compliments).

[Sinboy666]

Not to get too off topic. I thought I read somewhere that all the meta types Goblinized at some point, oh well.

and I was gonna say, even if the GM allows his players to be "immortal" that doesn't give him immunity: Bullet to the face... which is the way most Shadowrunners actually leave the mortal coil. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Fortinbras]

I'd say let the kid think he's 500 years old and reveal much later in the campaign that those are PAB Unit implanted memories; he's really just some schmuck pulled of the street for a corp experiment.

The nature of the character isn't changed and it maintains game balance as well as being a pretty neat story.
Heck, I'd give him the option of reprogramming his memory to forget about finding out the truth.
Just a thought.

[LurkerOutThere]

At the risk of generalizing on the internet this and the PC Dragon thread strike me as folks that want the story to be about them, not the characters, not a game world they participate in and influence, them.

[Lansdren]

Not to get too off topic. I thought I read somewhere that all the meta types Goblinized at some point, oh well.

and I was gonna say, even if the GM allows his players to be "immortal" that doesn't give him immunity: Bullet to the face... which is the way most Shadowrunners actually leave the mortal coil. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Yes and No, Elves and Dwarfs are just born as such (there is no commenty about a fetus being seen to be human and then changing to a elf), First Gen Orks and Trolls normally changed at about puberty (variations both up and down are known).

Second Gen Orks and Trolls can be both born as their metatype or be born human and then goblinise later

[Elfenlied]

Rules-wise, there's a quick and easy ways of pulling it off: Let the character purchase the Banshee positive quality from RC. It grants all the benefits associated with Immortal Elves (Immunity to Age/Disease/Pathogens) without forcing anyone to pay through the nose for it or granting any particularly unfair benefits. There's canon reference to awakened infected elves prior to 2011, so old age isn't an issue. Of course, you're free to relable it as "Immortal Elf".


Fluff-wise, if you choose to go with the "Immortal Elf" route, you could make him the offspring of one of the Immortal Elves, kinda like Frosty, except much younger. It would explain his "youth" (compared to other IEs), while also granting an excuse to explain why certain of his abilities (magic, immunities etc.) aren't fully developed yet.