alt.WAR, Fixing War's problems by writing a new book Options

[sabs]

Would love to give chapter 2 a shot (for the Earthdawn tie-ins (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif) ).

Deadline might be a bit tight. Give us until January 30th to submit the first draft.

You talking about 2.1 and 2.2?

And I agree jan 30th for 1st draft is better.

I think that for initial drafts, just posting the content without formating (just text) would be better..

Once we like the writing, etc, we can put it together in a format with pictuers and sidebars and crap when we've got all the major writing done.

[lokii]

Do you want to do the Aztlaner unit? It doesn't need ot be the parachutists, if you have a colombian jungle fighters unit, that's even better!

Ah, no sorry. It's really just an idea I threw out in case anybody feels inspired by it and wants to use it. Also I'm so out of loop on gear and some other stuff, that I wouldn't be able to do it justice anyway.

Well, if you strictly adhere to canon I guess you will have to work with the Almanac geography of Southeast Asia. So that takes care of that business. Which is fine. I hope to have my comparison world map out soon, so people can still decide on were to work with the SoA geography in their games.

[hermit]

Okay, Jan 30. I'm not from the publishing industry and more used to homework along the lines of "2000 word essay till next week".

[sabs]

Ah, no sorry. It's really just an idea I threw out in case anybody feels inspired by it and wants to use it. Also I'm so out of loop on gear and some other stuff, that I wouldn't be able to do it justice anyway.

Well, if you strictly adhere to canon I guess you will have to work with the Almanac geography of Southeast Asia. So that takes care of that business. Which is fine. I hope to have my comparison world map out soon, so people can still decide on were to work with the SoA geography in their games.

Even the Almanac geography has a ton of blindspots, and just things that dont make sense.

[Doc Chase]

A possibility for Caracas is that it does end up occupied by AZT for about eight months, then pulls out as Amazonia starts to step up pressure via the UN to restore it as a Free City - leading to an actual war but also maintaining the timeline.

[hermit]

Well, if you strictly adhere to canon I guess you will have to work with the Almanac geography of Southeast Asia. So that takes care of that business. Which is fine. I hope to have my comparison world map out soon, so people can still decide on were to work with the SoA geography in their games.

Far as I am concerned, SR is a world where cartography stopped being a precise science. especially given how the Almanac brutally walks all over canon in so many places ... of cours,e if the new SE Asia map is the new state, something must have happened there, and it could actually be a hook for the writeup in War!.

[fistandantilus4....]

Hoping to have an answer one way or the other in a day or so, that way all of the mods have an oppurtunity to look over the situation and consider it. As Grinder said, there are some obvious concerns from our side. The "Minimal Contradiction Policy" is a point to that, and you've obviously taken some consideration to that. While we as users, posters, and mods all have our own individual feelings towards CGL and/or its employees, we want to make sure that there doesn't become an issue between Dumpshock and Catalyst. DS has had good relations with all the various companies over the years, and we'd prefer it stay that way.

Do you have a name for your project so far besides "alt.War"?

[hermit]

No, not yet. Add.War?

Guys?

Also, before we start working on the writing: This.

Please post any shadowtalkers you'd like to have. I'm all for keeping it to some 30, because that was a good decision designing JackPoint, so we should let our book 'take place' in a sub-board of Shadowland with not quite as many visitors.

Let's say, max. 5 Talkers for each, and 5 old ones? Plus maybe some 10 guests, but that will have to be discussed when the first drafts are in.

[lokii]

Far as I am concerned, SR is a world where cartography stopped being a precise science. especially given how the Almanac brutally walks all over canon in so many places ... of cours,e if the new SE Asia map is the new state, something must have happened there, and it could actually be a hook for the writeup in War!.

Yeah well, just make sure to squint with both eyes or simply forget that somehow magically a good portion is back to were it started out in year 2000 and the rest decided that those old administrative borders were reasonable after all and orderly went back to them. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

But if ol' Frank is coaching what can possibly go wrong? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[hermit]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) Yeah. Well, maybe there was a huge war and then the UN came and told everyone off to go back and be good little provinces again?

[sabs]

No we dont..

But we really should.

We have names for a few of the sub projects.

Rumble in the Jungle for SE Asia
Strategic Earnings (Desert Wars, Survivor!)

[Grinder]

I may have missed it, but what's the current status of (former) Colombia? Independent state, still occupied by Aztlan, something else?

[Nath]

The 1er régiment étranger de cavalerie ? Any reason for such choice ? They're a light tank regiment. The guy people think about when you talk about la Légion Etrangère would rather be the 3e régiment étranger d'infanterie (3e REI, those stationed in French Guiana) or the 2e régiment étranger parachutiste (2e REP, the closest thing to special forces in the Legion).

The 1er REC would still be interesting background-wise, because a lot of aristocrats serving in the military often chose cavalry as their specialization. Though they still get some training in actual cavalry, the specialization is rather about MBT, recon and intelligence. Though the aristocratic grip on the Sixth Republic is coming to an end (in no small part because several of the French authors don't want to hear about it anymore), the army and cavalry especially may remain sort of strongholds for the nobility.


In this regards, it worth noting the special relationship between the Légion étrangère and the Orléans family. Louis-Philippe, the last king of France from 1830 to 1848, created the Légion in 1831. Henri d'Orléans, his great-great-grandson, joined the 1er régiment étranger d'infanterie during WW2 under a pseudonym, as the law then forbade royal family members from joining the French armed forces. This law was later revoked, and Henri son, Henri Jr. openly served in the 1er REC during the Algeria war.

In Shadowrun, general Antoine d'Orléans (likely to be a great grandson or cousin of Henri Jr.) was a successful commander and a hero of the Eurowar, as well as one of the leader of the aristocratic conspiracy to seize power, who came to win first presidential election of the Sixth Republic. Considering the familial history, it would make sense for him to have served in the Légion. If he was a hero with the French people at large, his aura among the troops would probably be incredible.
In my home-made material so far, I had Antoine d'Orléans being an infantry officer, commanding the 2e REP before becoming a general (first because I felt parachutists handpicked to be the conspiracy henchmen would be more threatening than tank pilots, and also for the irony, since 1er REP was disbanded for leading a failed coup d'etat against general de Gaulle in 1961).

[lokii]

I may have missed it, but what's the current status of (former) Colombia? Independent state, still occupied by Aztlan, something else?

Amazonia took roughly the lower two thirds, Aztlan the remaining third. Aztlan's piece of Colombia became a member state, so officially it joined.

If you haven't seen it, you can also have a look at my Middle America and South America animation to see what I just told you in moving pictures: http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?show...t&p=1021280

[hermit]

The 1er régiment étranger de cavalerie ? Any reason for such choice ? They're a light tank regiment. The guy people think about when you talk about la Légion Etrangère would rather be the 3e régiment étranger d'infanterie (3e REI, those stationed in French Guiana) or the 2e régiment étranger parachutiste (2e REP, the closest thing to special forces in the Legion).

The 1er REC would still be interesting background-wise, because a lot of aristocrats serving in the military often chose cavalry as their specialization. Though they still get some training in actual cavalry, the specialization is rather about MBT, recon and intelligence. Though the aristocratic grip on the Sixth Republic is coming to an end (in no small part because several of the French authors don't want to hear about it anymore), the army and cavalry especially may remain sort of strongholds for the nobility.


In this regards, it worth noting the special relationship between the Légion étrangère and the Orléans family. Louis-Philippe, the last king of France from 1830 to 1848, created the Légion in 1831. Henri d'Orléans, his great-great-grandson, joined the 1er régiment étranger d'infanterie during WW2 under a pseudonym, as the law then forbade royal family members from joining the French armed forces. This law was later revoked, and Henri son, Henri Jr. openly served in the 1er REC during the Algeria war.

In Shadowrun, general Antoine d'Orléans (likely to be a great grandson or cousin of Henri Jr.) was a successful commander and a hero of the Eurowar, as well as one of the leader of the aristocratic conspiracy to seize power, who came to win first presidential election of the Sixth Republic. Considering the familial history, it would make sense for him to have served in the Légion. If he was a hero with the French people at large, his aura among the troops would probably be incredible.
In my home-made material so far, I had Antoine d'Orléans being an infantry officer, commanding the 2e REP before becoming a general (first because I felt parachutists handpicked to be the conspiracy henchmen would be more threatening than tank pilots, and also for the irony, since 1er REP was disbanded for leading a failed coup d'etat against general de Gaulle in 1961).

Well, the Aztlaner unit would be something pretty much like the 3e REI, I imagine, given their reasonably similar MO (despite the 3 REI very possibly being a participant in the war). I wanted something slightly not quite like the cliché of the légion étrangère. The parachutists would work too if we make the Aztlaner regiment something else (light tnak maybe? I want one motorized regiment there, to illustrate how those are organised). Would you do this? You're welcome to include the Duc d'Orleans.

Actually, sabs and I are working on an update to SR France's Paris on the side, so maybe you can contribute there, too?

[Abschalten]

A possibility for Caracas is that it does end up occupied by AZT for about eight months, then pulls out as Amazonia starts to step up pressure via the UN to restore it as a Free City - leading to an actual war but also maintaining the timeline.

I rather like this idea. Something about Aztlaner occupation seems right to me.

I think the oligarch general (Maron I believe?) should put up a fight before the invasion, with the land invasion severely hampered by the Green Wall surrounding Caracas. The General, being a native of Caracas, knows how to operate his troops more effectively in the jungle and terrain surrounding Caracas, but ultimately is no match for the sheer resources at the disposal of the Aztech forces, both national and corporate.

The naval blockade prevents ships from escaping the harbor, but also prevents Amazonian forces from rallying to the defense of the city by sea. Even if Amazonia doesn't want the city, they still don't want Aztlan to have it.

When the front lines crumble and the Azzie forces make their push, the Caracan military retreats back into the city (though leaving nasty traps and surprises in the jungle behind them to slow the Azzie advance.) By the time the Azzie forces have entered into Caracas, General Maron has vanished, along with much of his troops.

I imagine Maron staying in hiding and orchestrating some guerilla assaults against the occupying Azzie forces while they are in the city. It could even make for some strange temporary alliances, say, with the fiercely nationalistic Bolivar '49 gang, where they strike at targets of opportunity, and then vanish into the massive and sprawling favelas before reprisals from the Azzie military.

General Maron might even be smart enough and aware of his city to the level where he can attempt to draw the fighting into the truly, TRULY nasty parts of town with abhorrant background counts in order to nullify the Azzie magical advantage.

Man, my mind is already coming up with a pretty cool narrative...

[Neurosis]

Well, I looked away for one second and this grew ten pages! Knew that would happen!

And now even catching up is a daunting task. Am I needed for anything?

Related, where is the outline at the moment? I feel like the current outline should be kept on either the first page or the most recent one..having to dig back to a random page of an increasingly gigantic topic to find it is daunting.

Final random thought is that I still find the dual-headquarters of this project a bit distracting. As is um...not knowing whether or not this project is under the iron fisted rule of Frank Trollman.

Edit, for my own convenience:

0) Shadowland login screen. This is one of the touches that will make this document feel like an SR4 publication.

1) Introduction The Real Story Of The War (written up as a a classic in-game Shadowland writeup, maybe with some references to War!, but nothing contradicting it)
- An introduction to the war as we see it, and a short out-of-world writeup what this adds to War!, why it makes sense to own both War! And this and what our mission writing this is.

[meat 2 to 4: an overview of the entire Am/Az conflict as an Argus document that got leaked onto the shadow boards. They got hired to give a comprehensive overview of the war (probably by UCAS or CAS) - that'll let us give an objective view on everything without having to rely on making 'runners to tell the stories]

2) God’s Eye Perspective: An overview of the conflict
2.1 Aztlan: The only thing better than power is more power
2.2 Amazonia: Over our cold, dead bodies
2.3 UCAS/Ares: The enemy of my enemy still is my enemy (but seeing them kill each other is priceless)
2.4 Saeder-Krupp: War is business. More war is more business.
- Horizon: Food for the World, and pleased love us!
- Colombian freedom fighters: Viva Colombia!

3) The Front Lines! (What happened in the war, and who did what where. All the stuff we miss. This is where a timeline goes!)
3.1) Timeline of the war
3.2) Maracaibo (urban warfare in all it’s gory glory)
3.3) Caracas (If this isn’t the biggest mess in South America, it’ll do till the real biggest mess arrives)
3.4) Bogota (venture point, occupied city, dense atmosphere, but no massive battles)

4) Military Organizations involved
4.1) AZT - War on 5,000 Nuyen a soldier or less
4.2) AMZ - Magical guerillas
4.3) UCAS/CAS - High Tech, Low Numbers
4.4) Ares/S&K - Who do you think /makes/ the High tech toys
4.5) Mercs - A range of Merc units. From those barely better than a shadowrun team, to highly trained, highly equiped special forces mercs.

5) Modern Warfare 2073 (meat: a document compiled by the CAS armed forces for CAS Marine officer trainees at [whereever their Marines academy is].)
5.1) Different Strategies for different people (an introductionary essay on different types of armies in the 6th world and what that means)
5.1.1 The 6 Million Nuyen Soldier (High Tech, Low Numbers: Examples UCAS, CAS, Ares, SK, MCT; essay by one of these or maybe an analyst of another corp)
5.1.2 Do you want to live forever? (Quantity over quality. Examples: AZT, Russia; an essay by a former Russian or Aztlaner soldier)
5.1.3 The new ways of War (magic-heavy armies. examples: AMZ, TT, Yakut. An essay on fighting those from the perspective of a CalFree soldier?)
5.1.4 Down and dirty (Asymmetrical Warfare. Examples: African Armies, Terrorists and Insurgents. An essay by a veteran of the Polish freedom fighters)
5.1.5: Oh My God Is That A Dragon? An essay on what combat does look like when your air force faces Wyverns and Dragons. Probably an in-game
5.2 The Matrix on the Battlefield
5.2.1: The combat hacker. What does Hacking for the military look like and how does it differ from hacking for corps?
5.2.2 Digital Frontlines: What is fought in the Matrix in War and why. Securing commsats, encryption/decryption, infiltration/guarding of tacnets, recon, disinformation. How do Hackers work in the Combat Zone The HQ Hacker, the OpCom haker, the descendants of the comms guy, Rigger platoons and Cyberwar Brigades
5.2.3 The Resonant Side Of War: Combat Technomancers, AI and Sprites versus Tactical Hackers and Agents. Also an essay on The Military fighting AI and Sprites, possibly written up as a report from UN forces fighting to take back Geneva.
5.3 Magic on the battlefield (an Intro by a hardened Merc about Magic on the Battlefield and how it changed everything, a brief outline of magic in wars from the Ghost dance War to the Euro Wars to the Az/Yuc-War.)
5.3.1 to 5.3.3 Three essays on magic on the battlefield, each in-character: one by a member of the Tir Tairngire armed forces (magical combined troops), one by a Yakut shapeshifter (magical guerilla) and one by an UCAS combat mage (Magic in a technicised army). Each with it’s own flavor and varied use of magic)

6) Faces of War: Sample Units (meat: a collection of documents accumulated by the Ares' Inteligence Services, formerly part of the Seraphin network, who want to study how these militaries work to know more about their competitors, and as a for-sale guide for 'military counselors'.)
Aztlan Brigada de Fusileros Paracaidistas (Aztlan’s parachutist regiment)
La Legion Étrangère, 1er Régiment étranger de cavalerie, 1er REC (mobile light armored cavalry)
The King’s Own Royal Gurkha Rifles (formerly Royal Gurkha Rifles, British Gurkha regiment)
Henan People’s Liberation Army 19th Infantry Division (organised much like a Chinese PLA regiment from the Korean war)
MET 2000 Einsatzgruppe 3 (A heavily cybered combined arms troop)
The units should feature fully statted example NPCs as well as unit organization and rank charts.

7) Gear and coolshit (meat: an exposé by the Lagos Arms Fair, written for prospective customers; downloaded is the English version, but there could be others in all kinds of languages mentioned somehow)
- Revisions of the gear in War!.

cool.gif Game Info Errata’d rules from War! That are not totally batshit.

9) Shadowland Open Forum. An open forum where we can have our talkers go nuts. good, old-fashioned shadowtalk, rumors, discussions drifung. We can dump anything that does not fit anywhere else here.

Now the question becomes how to divide up all this work. But it is nice to see that we have the skeleton intact.

"Final" edit of this post...how did SK and UCAS/Ares get involved again? And what is their stake in all this?

[lokii]

If I were you (and remember I'm specifically not you, when it comes to writing this) I would call section 3.1 "The Bigger Picture" (working title) that's maps + timeline, overall strategy and objectives for both sides, key military installations, modus operandi, what in is in the warzone right now, what can be brought in if the war goes downhill. Also the periphery of the war zone, what is the Corporate Court up to in Panama, how does Aztlan prevent Caribbean smugglers from supplying the Amazonians, how do the Ghost Cartels profit from the situation?

EDIT: Quick clarification while some of it could conceivably go into chapter 4, I think it's more clean to have it in one place and relating directly to the description of the war. Only exception is probably modus operandi.

[Kot]

I can contribute with my SR-in-Poland material, if you want to have two small, but interesting conflicts. And off course I'd write a description of a Merc group, probably the one mentioned - Woje. If you want that in your fanbook, that is. I'm probably not SR-wise enough to do a lot more - just supporting, critique, and stuff like that.

[Grinder]

You talking about 2.1 and 2.2?

Yep. An Argus-report, set through with shadowposter-comments and additions.

[Grinder]

Okay, Jan 30. I'm not from the publishing industry and more used to homework along the lines of "2000 word essay till next week".

I was speaking of the first draft until January 30th. That way the writers have a month to finish their piece, what should be ok. After that, we can discuss, edit and compile the draft (during February).

[Arclight]

I could contribute an article on personal eqipment (what to wear&carry, how to wear&carry) and an article on unit organization (infantry fireteam, squad, platoon, company; maybe SOF a-team/b-team/company). Also on combat first aid (equipment, methods).

I am active (german) military with 7 years served so far, did one tour with a mountain infantry company and did a short term in Afghanistan last year (that was Camp-only, though); so I think I would get the facts right (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Also, Merry Christmas to you all (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[lokii]

Wait a minute, I completely overlooked chapter 2. So forget my whole ramble except for the periphery. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) I'm outta here.

[sabs]

What kind of military did you want to tackle Arclight?

AZT (think chinese/russian .. a ton of cheap units, low numbers of big game changing drones and vehicles)
AMZ Probably something like 30-40 percent awakened in their military, with probably a 10% spellcaster rating.
UCAS/CAS/ARES/S&K - Highly trained grunts, with tons of drone fire support, limited magical support.

[hermit]

Everyone, please post some Shadowtalkers and a short description you'd like to include.