alt.WAR, Fixing War's problems by writing a new book Options

[sabs]

Yes, I think that all the Major players are in Caracas as part of the UN/CC "Peace Keeping mission"

S&K is there officially as part of the UN force, but really they're there in case they can get a shot at Lofwyr's favorite Scaley friend. Wuxing btw, is there because they don't WANT S&K to get a shot at Hualpa but Sirrurg can totally bite it.

I could see GIAT or Maersk getting the transport/supply contracts.

Caracas has:
REC, S&K, Ares, UCAS, CAS, Wuxing, (maybe Renraku), Horizon, Japanese Imperial Army.. as part of the UN mission.
I'd love to add a Contigent of "Knights" from that German Troll Kingdom. Just cause it makes me giggle (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
And of course, more Mercs than you can shake a stick at.
And you have Shadowrunners there because lets face it. None of these people play well with others, and they have agendas, AND there's profit to be made in dealing with AZT special forces, AmZ special forces, all trying to create a mess that gets blamed on the other guys.

[Grinder]

man we need those forums (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

We need to plot out the War, the Major players and 3-4 reasons why they're doing what they're doing

Start new threads for the topics. We can move them into the sub forums without problem.

[sabs]

I just didn't want to spam the crap out of your community projects forum (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Black Angus]

I am much less disatisfied with War! than a most of you. There is, however, one problem with the book that no one's mentioned--the Yeti and Nepal. The write up here doesn't jive with the other materials and I believe I should write a brief entry making it feel more like Shodowrun.

I like SR sasquatches but they always run the risk of becoming Wookieish, apish, or generally too silly and the Yeti entry is running the risk of all three.

[hermit]

It's not running risk, but my main beef with Nepal is the orichalcum. There is no natural orichalcum. All that is mined was hidden sometime in the past. Also, IF you have orichalcum ore, why the hell stimm mine for gold? It's worth easily 20 times as much.

Besides, why did the Yeti switch sides and stop guarding tibet? Why is no mention made of Tibet? Why has the idea of tunneling into Tibet suddenly been dropped? And why does nobody mention the Gurkha? Why does SK even attack nepal, as it'S made of Gurkha? That just makes little sense.

If you want to write a brief entry on Nepal, feel free, submissions are always welcome. It may not immediatly be used, but since we're planning an issue on corp wars, it could fit in there. Still, I sort of feel the Yeti, while certainly bad, are not the only thing that's reasonably wrong about Nepal.

Keep in mind, though, that we decided to not rewrite but work around the stuff that now is established canon, retconning as little as possible. So you may want to mention a reason for *some* Yeti tribes to switch sides and *rumors* of orichalcum mines or ore or whatever being found.

[sabs]

The problems with Nepal and Tibet.. we'd either put that in Corp Wars, or in an issue about China/tibet/Nepal/Mongolia/JIS/Korea/India/Pakistan/Afghanistan

[Black Angus]

I wasn't going to change anything. I just wanted to clean up the concept of the whole SK/Nepal/Yeti affair, but if no one else is bothered by it that's fine. I had also assumed the Lofwyr wanted something other than orichalcum and intended to leave his motivations alone.

[hermit]

Sounds good. That might not see publication in the first issue, but in the Asia land war issue it will, if you want to write it.

[Nath]

So, it seems I misunderstood something with the 1er REC writeup. All the units that appear in the table of contents in the "Faces of War" are to relate somehow to the ongoing South American war ?

It's not running risk, but my main beef with Nepal is the orichalcum. There is no natural orichalcum. All that is mined was hidden sometime in the past.

I'm not sure there is a published book (the only source of True Canon) that valid the theory that the mined orichalcum was hidden in the first place. Year of the Comet actually describes the mined orichalcum as "natural" in Game Information, page 149. It also says some people speculate such deposit could reappear if the mana level rise again, prompting several factions to fight over the concerned areas just in case.
So War! is not completely wrong on that, as it nowhere states someone is currently mining orichalcum, as of 2073. It's just that it should read "there might be orichalcum in them hills" instead of "there's orichalcum in them hills", and provide some background (which the Global Hotspots chapter in general fail to do).

And why does nobody mention the Gurkha? Why does SK even attack nepal, as it'S made of Gurkha? That just makes little sense.

About 15% of the Nepalese population belongs to ethnic groups you can call Ghurkas. The Nepalese army currently has 2 battalions of Gurkhas, out of 18. The largest number of Ghurkas who fit for military service serve in the Indian Army actually. So unless the entire Nepalese nation rise to fight back against the invaders, and receive proper military training, S-K is not going to face an entire army of übergurkha. And since Nepal is not very nationalist, S-K itself may recruit some Gurkhas as well.
There's still in for some trouble, but as my history teacher used to say: "Poland had the best cavalrymen in the world as of 1939. Germany had the best tanks."

I have a much bigger problem with the fact that what is happening in Nepal according to War! is an open war between a megacorporation and a government : Saeder-Krupp has no proxy to claim they're only providing assistance. That's the first time in the entire SR history. So S-K is heading to break the three golden rules of the Corporate Court - "you break it, you pay it", "don't overthrow a national government" and "don't go at war" - at once.

[hermit]

About 15% of the Nepalese population belongs to ethnic groups you can call Ghurkas. The Nepalese army currently has 2 battalions of Gurkhas, out of 18. The largest number of Ghurkas who fit for military service serve in the Indian Army actually. So unless the entire Nepalese nation rise to fight back against the invaders, and receive proper military training, S-K is not going to face an entire army of übergurkha. And since Nepal is not very nationalist, S-K itself may recruit some Gurkhas as well.
There's still in for some trouble, but as my history teacher used to say: "Poland had the best cavalrymen in the world as of 1939. Germany had the best tanks."

I could've been clearer. Yeah, Nepal isn't known for it'S massive army in general, moreso in SR ... but it should have been mentioned and it definitly should be mentioned in the writeup that this is the country of the Gurkha.

Also, while tanks win the flat plains of Germany and Poland, infantry and mules win the mountains. Ask Russia.

I'm not sure there is a published book (the only source of True Canon) that valid the theory that the mined orichalcum was hidden in the first place. Year of the Comet actually describes the mined orichalcum as "natural" in Game Information, page 149. It also says some people speculate such deposit could reappear if the mana level rise again, prompting several factions to fight over the concerned areas just in case.

London pretty explicitly does so (or rather, says the only possible way for orichalcum to be minable in Snowdonia is that someone hid it there). I'm certain this was mentioned in one of the early magic books too.

I have a much bigger problem with the fact that what is happening in Nepal according to War! is an open war between a megacorporation and a government : Saeder-Krupp has no proxy to claim they're only providing assistance. That's the first time in the entire SR history. So S-K is heading to break the three golden rules of the Corporate Court - "you break it, you pay it", "don't overthrow a national government" and "don't go at war" - at once.

Aren't hey supposed to back the monarch or something? I can honestly not remember, but I thought I read something like this. Still, yes, that would be a big no-go.

[Brazilian_Shinob...]

Third draft complete.
PEACH.

[Nath]

London pretty explicitly does so (or rather, says the only possible way for orichalcum to be minable in Snowdonia is that someone hid it there). I'm certain this was mentioned in one of the early magic books too.

London Sourcebook does suggest so (page 128), but that was in 2052 (and 1991 IRL). If not for that particular case, natural orichalcum was still considered (almost) impossible before the year of the comet in 2061 (2001 IRL). Year of the Comet actually says the orichalcum from Snowdonia is different from the other "natural" deposits of orichalcum.

Aren't hey supposed to back the monarch or something? I can honestly not remember, but I thought I read something like this. Still, yes, that would be a big no-go.

They were in Shadows of Asia, and turned their back on him according to War!, as they couldn't get what they wanted through manipulation alone.

[hermit]

London Sourcebook does suggest so (page 128), but that was in 2052 (and 1991 IRL). If not for that particular case, natural orichalcum was still considered (almost) impossible before the year of the comet in 2061 (2001 IRL). Year of the Comet actually says the orichalcum from Snowdonia is different from the other "natural" deposits of orichalcum.

Yeah ... it's also the book of dragon godzilla, but yes, it said so. still, no comet. Where's it supposed to come from. This just does not fly. David Hill put some unobtanium into Nepal's mountains, not knowing what it was. I'd like to play this down a bit.

They were in Shadows of Asia, and turned their back on him according to War!, as they couldn't get what they wanted through manipulation alone.

Meh, I managed to miss that particular turd.

[Arclight]

I've finished the first text, topic is combat first aid.

GoogleDocs link

If you want to edit, please send me your mailadress via PM.

Next topic I'll finish will be personal equipment. I also started on an Ares infantry unit with a regiment-based structure, but would like some input from you on what size of unit is viable for a megacorp.

[Tzeentch]

-- Looks good so far, especially as SR4A and Augmentation are shockingly lacking any detail on combat medicine.

-- Not clear what the tissue poisoning is referencing, is that something that will be explained later?

[Arclight]

Thanks (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

The mentioned tissue poisening is a leftover from a pre-release version. I wanted to detail the contents of an IFAK and describe it's use during casualty treatment. When you apply a tourniquet to stop arterial bleeding on a limb, prolonged use can damage the limb tissue so far that an amputation is necessary.
The problem is, that the SR damage system is very abstract. As a result, any kind of damage can be treated with a relatively small and light "medkit", be it a small hole from a gunshot or large-area skin burns from a combat spell. So, detailing kit is pretty much useless as you cannot carry over the fluff into crunch.

[hermit]

Looking very good, and covers one of the things sorely missing from SR publications as of now.

You might drop a shadowtalk about biomonitors and auto-medkits (like the savior) in advanced armor, that can be triggered when falling unconscious. Maybe add to the end of phase one something like:

[ Spoiler ]

Unless you're wearing something like our SEPER III.s with an integrated Savior kit. It links to the armor's biosignal monitors and starts preliminary treatment even if you cannot do so yourself.

Like you can in these tin cans at all. If you're wearing heavy armor, forget about self-treatment. You'll likely pass out before you can even assess the wound. Also, this only applies of you're one of those guys who get the big shit blown up their asses, like the Legion, eh, Bébé?

For shadowtalkers, we have an established list here, which contains Franks as well as ours as have been handed in so far.

Also, in the end, maybe have Simba or someone else (maybe the Tapir shifter?) say something about spiritual medicine and Africa, since the setting is mainly in a Na'vi versus MiningCo setting, and the Amazonians are likely to be more on the voodoo side of healing.

[Tzeentch]

The mentioned tissue poisening is a leftover from a pre-release version. I wanted to detail the contents of an IFAK and describe it's use during casualty treatment. When you apply a tourniquet to stop arterial bleeding on a limb, prolonged use can damage the limb tissue so far that an amputation is necessary.

-- This seems analogous to Surgery Damage (p. 125, Augmentation).

The problem is, that the SR damage system is very abstract. As a result, any kind of damage can be treated with a relatively small and light "medkit", be it a small hole from a gunshot or large-area skin burns from a combat spell. So, detailing kit is pretty much useless as you cannot carry over the fluff into crunch.

-- Downscaling/adapting the surgery mechanics to some extent may work (e.g. First Aid glitches).

-- However, as you point out First Aid is pretty much surgery-lite in SR4A (especially as in a military setting you can have a full-fledged doctor remotely operating your kit (see Medkits and Autodocs, p. 253, SR4A) for almost risk-free healing of a big chunk of your condition monitor..

[sabs]

Well it could be as simple as your average medkit for a soldier is a Rank 3 medkit, where as Combat Medics get an R6 medkit with refills.

[Arclight]

GoogleDocs PersonalEquipment file

Next one's done. I'll work in something about "milspec" armor in both files later. Also, I'll think about rules for the first aid items.

Some questions:

Should we do some generic field kit for the equipment section?
What about a list of military slang?

[hermit]

Good work there.

I like the format (Knight Industries, hehe). Shadowtalk might need stronger individual voices, but that's editing. The end is a bit abrupt, two or three final comments would be nice (maybe something on commlinks for the soldier and the viability of constant radio traffic in non-urban theaters, I dunno - don't like this ZOMG WIRELESS stuff much myself, but it needs addressing), but that's all minor stuff, really. I'd really like to see something like statted out standard packages, best for different operational profiles. Military slang definitly is useful (best, in sidebar format).

I think we may want stats for MSCU and MSCLS, too - armor rating and built-in extras (infrared insulation, for instance).

[Arclight]

Maybe someone could do some archetypes with a complete kitlist?

[sabs]

Sigh
I'm working on my Aerial Combat essay.. and I'm having a hard time finding the right voice. Ah well.

I really like the Medics essay.

[Doc Chase]

Do what you can and I'll take a look, make some suggestions. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[Brazilian_Shinob...]

Maybe someone could do some archetypes with a complete kitlist?

You mean the kind of gear a grunt would be taking with him according to the geography of the battlefield?