alt.WAR, Fixing War's problems by writing a new book Options

[Arclight]

I don't know. If there is one thing I think armies wouldn't want to be cheap would be issuing armor. Paying 10 times more and you have a suit of armor that can take a blast explosion from a grenade at ground zero and still survive...

If the majority of soldiers would use such armor, we'd have much more deadlier weapon systems. If they would shed grenade blasts or bursts of automatic fire like it's nothing, it's not war but more like the most expensive version of a game of football.

I'll be offline until monday, btw. Have fun, guys!

[Grinder]

hemit, would you be so kind and collect links to all Google Docs in the thread for #1?

[sabs]

Then maybe we need to rethink "Military Armor"

Perhaps it's got the same stats as Swat Armor, but with specialized mods?

While I don't think it should have a built in commlink, I think it should have a commlink carrier case.

Troops have an issued Commlink, and they are not allowed to wear/use their personal commlinks while on duty.

Grinder do you have a status for us?

[hermit]

I think I have (I just edit my post there so as to not drown that out).

[Brazilian_Shinob...]

If the majority of soldiers would use such armor, we'd have much more deadlier weapon systems. If they would shed grenade blasts or bursts of automatic fire like it's nothing, it's not war but more like the most expensive version of a game of football.

I'll be offline until monday, btw. Have fun, guys!

Perhaps it is time to issue laser weapons to troops? And given the new rules for overlaping grenades blasts, you just need to throw two grenades together to kill anyone. At least, with a SWAT Armor, there is a chance to survive.

[Tzeentch]

-- The Thunderstruck (p. 30, Arsenal) might be better for power armor Rambos as it does 10P, halves all armor that isn't smart, and has an AP -5 on top of all that. That reduces Heavy Military Armor to 3 ballistic armor (4 if wearing a helmet). Ouch.

[Kliko]

Not invloved before. But from a logistics point of view you want military armor existing of two parts:

1) Affordable form-fitted inner mold module fitted to the individual user/soldier/merc.
2) Standard outer module with all the mods, accesoires, armor, the works etc.

[Kyoto Kid]

Nothing set in stone so far, but we're taking (for a later issue, though). Nothing's saying you can't work on it though.

For the Balkans setting, the Crash shouldn't be a world shaking event anyway, crappy as it already was. Adapting it should be relatively easy. The only mention of the area after SoE has been in Feral Cities, which did a somewhat meh writeup of Sarajevo.

...there is also a passing reference to peace talks between Serbia and Croatia under the entry for Sayid Mujtaba Musawi in the Culture Shock section of SOTA '64 as well as brief mention in the historical section of Shadows of Europe (see next).

According to SoE, the region had pretty much been the main staging area and battlefield for the clash between Danube Union/Met2000 and Muslim forces. Following the war, the nations who would eventually form the NEEC were more concerned about the recession and rebuilding. Meanwhile, the situation in the Balkans was pretty much left to fester as the region descended into ethnic and religious factionalism.

This left me pretty much a blank slate for a campaign I was writing up that involved the Balkans, most notably the nations of Croatia and Serbia which through history have been ethnic and religious rivals. Granted, this allowed me to take a little political liberty as I had Serbia become a dictatorship which annexed Montenegro and then (with a little outside help) invaded and occupied Croatia (giving a bit more precedent for the peace talks of '64)


What I would need to know is what the current political situation in Europe is.

[hermit]

The NEEC is growing stronger and just put France under sanctions for blowing up corp facilities in the SOX containment zone. Euroroutes are being built more and more, and the continent is slowly starting to look like it does IRL. Poland is reeling from a civil war and horribad writing, Germany about to turn into a subsidiary of the Frankfurter Bankenverein (Frankfurt, South) and Saeder-Krupp (everyhwere else), with the Berlin Anarchy mostly pcaified. Hamburg made a moderately half-assed attempt at secession. England stopped having a Lord Protector, but still is protofascist, Tir na nOg has a terrorist problem, and ... that's about it, everything else is probably like detailed in SoE.

[Brazilian_Shinob...]

So, has anyone else come with an alternate kit for grunts? Or are we stucking with the version I made and change accordingly?

[Brazilian_Shinob...]

I jsut realized why the army wouldn't issue SWAT armor to every trooper. I forgot the armor encumbrance rules. Meaning that you would need at least BOD 7 to wear such armor with no penalty. Of course, Trolls and Orks could have less problem reaching this rating of BOD, but I think it is best for morale and avoid inside racism issues if everyone receives the same kind of gear.
So, for reference, I'll use the stats given for the infantryman (War!, page 148). He has BOD 4 and STR 3, which means the highest value of Impact or Ballistic must be 8 (or 11 with Softweave). Given the fact that softweave just increases the price by 10% and increases the rating of the armor by 3 points with no encumbrance, I think that is the way to go.

So, corrected version:

[ Spoiler ]

backpack
survival kit
gas mask
sleeping bag
tent
Info Santé medkit RTG 3
Info Santé trauma patch
Info Santé biomonitor

Fleche Armaments camouflage suit
with chemical protection RTG 2, fire resistance RTG 2, insulation RTG 2
helmet with: flare compensation, low-light, image link, smartlink, vision magnification, thermographic
built-in headphones with spatial recognizer, select sound filter RTG 2
and attached trodes

Colt M23 with safe target system, sling, laser designator RTG 3, smartgun system, gas-vent system II and shock pad
8 clips of APDS ammo
Colt Government 2066 with smartgun system
2 clips of APDS ammo
2 Flare grenades
4 High Explosive Grenades
2 Thermal Smoke Grenades

Leviathan SMIC with Quick Trigger Military OS™ (equivalent to Novatech Airware with Iris Orb OS)
Quick Trigger Tacsoft 3
Agent 3
Analyze 3
Browse 3
Edit 3
Encrypt 3
ECCM 3

It costs 25,000 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif)

Feel free to change/suggest.

Also, I think we could add a 'Tweaking the rules sidebar' suggesting other rules for armor encumbrance and encumbrance in general (suggesting using BOD + STR for instance, instead of BODx2)

[Kyoto Kid]

...so whatever happened to the Pendragon? Did the writers just lose track of him?

At the time of his appearance, the UK seemed ripe for change.

[Tzeentch]

-- Working off of Shinobi's list. I still need to finish this with a commlink and backup gun, but how does this look:

-- Equipment is going to vary a lot depending on mission and army, but a patrol load for a Fourth Wave grunt (UCAS Army/ TT Peace Force/ etc) might look something like:

Patrol/Fighting Load

Camouflage Suit (p. 327, SR4A) with fire resistance (Rating 2), gel-packs (p. 50, Arsenal), and SoftWeave (p. 160, War!) [3,020 :nuyen: ].
Helmet (p. 328, SR4A) [100 :nuyen: ]
Respirator (Rating 6) (p. 336, SR4A) [150 :nuyen: ]
Biomonitor (p. 337, SR4A) [300 :nuyen: ]
Light Stick (p. 336, SR4A) [5 :nuyen: ]
Military First-Aid Kit (contains Trauma Patch (p. 338, SR4A) and Medkit (Rating 3) (p. 337, SR4A)) [800 :nuyen: ]
Survival Kit (p. 337, SR4A) [100 :nuyen: ]

Colt M23 (p. 27, Arsenal) with internal smartgun system and gas-vent 2 (both p. 322, SR4A), safe target system and sling (both p. 33, Arsenal), grip pod (p. 00), and laser designator (Rating 3) (p. 34, Arsenal). [2,865 :nuyen: ]
8x clips APDS ammo (320 rounds) [291 :nuyen: ]
7x Flash Bang Grenade (p. 324, SR4A) [210 :nuyen: ]
2x Fragmentation Grenades (p. 324, SR4A) [70 :nuyen: ]
1x Smoke Grenade (p. 324, SR4A) [30 :nuyen: ]

NEW EQUIPMENT
Grip Pod: This is a retractable bipod (p. 322, SR4A) contained inside a foregrip (p. 34, Arsenal). Takes a Simple Action to extend or retract the bipod.

Name Mount Avail Cost
Grip Pod Under 5 250 :nuyen:
-- Gear list adapted from a thread on smallwarsjournal.com regarding infantry loads.
-- It's not clear if the SR Gas Mask includes a rated respirator (it doesn't say). If clarified in alt.War! go with that instead. Otherwise it's implied that it only works for 1 hour which isn't long enough.

[hermit]

...so whatever happened to the Pendragon? Did the writers just lose track of him?

At the time of his appearance, the UK seemed ripe for change.

He disappeared (it's in the Almanac). Because the current writers couldn't handle him. Well, that's better than writing up stats for eating Irish babies, I guess.

[Kyoto Kid]

...bugger Was looking forward to a political donnybrook between him and Marchemont.

Without the LP anymore, having the UK continue as an "Orwellian" state doesn't seem to make much sense. One would think that with the tide of revolution in the early 60s (bolstered by the Pendragon's appearance), much of the power structure Marchemont and the NDM had would have crumbled. They (the editors) had built such an interesting scenario to simply dismiss with a handwave.

Reminds me of a certain comic book company in the 80s that made universe shattering changes only to turn around and say, "oh, it was all a dream".

...and a recent popular television series.

...sloppy, very sloppy.

[hermit]

They (the editors) had built such an interesting scenario to simply dismiss with a handwave.

Reminds me of a certain comic book company in the 80s that made universe shattering changes only to turn around and say, "oh, it was all a dream".

...and a recent popular television series.

...sloppy, very sloppy.

*SO VERY DEEP SIGH*

Yes, sloppy.

[Arclight]

I'd add a helmet light and an IR beacon to his kit.

I really like the GripPod - maybe we could do more weapon-mounted gear?

[Tzeentch]

-- It would make sense to clarify what the point of having a Imaging Scope (p. 322, SR4A) is. At present it's a "why bother" accessory I never even see mentioned (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Off-hand it would seem that allowing it to function as a corner shot type system (poke weapon out and aim) would be quite useful (at the expense of proper bracing).

-- I'm not sure what kind of sidearm makes sense in Shadowrun. Many modern infantry don't carry a pistol, and when they do it's optional and often has nothing to do with SOP or meeting any kind of requirement - it's 'peace of mind' chunk of metal.

-- Shadowrun doesn't have IR reflective patches I don't think (not entirely clear what they would do in game terms either). Presumably IR beacon is replaced with an IFF beacon from their commlink, interfacing with the safe target system. Note that the Shadowrun safe target system is probably deactivated a lot of the time, as that 1m buffer pretty much cripples any sort of operation in urban terrain (like room entry), and you probably want the option to "go dark" with your emissions - so some sort of simple backup does make sense.

Helmet (p. 328, SR4A) with flashlight (p. 336, SR4A), trodes (p. 328, SR4A), and microtrideo camera (Rating 1) with image link. [300 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) ]
Goggles (Rating 3) (p. 332, SR4A) with low light, flare compensation, smartlink, and hardening (Rating 4) (p. 58, Arsenal). [900 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) ]
Headphones (Rating 1) (p. 333, SR4A) with spatial recognizer and hardening (Rating 2) [200 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) ]
Snake (consists of an Endoscope (p. 332, SR4A) coupled with a trideo camera (Rating 2) with low-light and flare compensation). [600 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) ]

-- There's no audio enhancement for protected hearing?!
-- Not clear if hardening takes a slot in the gear. If it does, then we bump goggles and headphones up one rating point.

[Kliko]

Grip pod FTW!

[Arclight]

-- Shadowrun doesn't have IR reflective patches I don't think (not entirely clear what they would do in game terms either).

Using IR patches on the target and an IR source for the shooter, you could make perception checks a free action. That would make it a huge benefit in combat. Same goes for IR beacons and ground force / air support interaction.
If it's not high tech enough, it still can be used as a low cost / legacy replacement for TacNets features.

[Tzeentch]

Using IR patches on the target and an IR source for the shooter, you could make perception checks a free action. That would make it a huge benefit in combat. Same goes for IR beacons and ground force / air support interaction.
If it's not high tech enough, it still can be used as a low cost / legacy replacement for TacNets features.

-- I like that idea. I'm becoming less enamoured with the safe target system the more I think about it. It really doesn't seem like it would work all that well in the situations it would ideally be used for -- combat in complex environments where positive ID is essential.

-- Maybe something like:

ID Patch: Most Sixth World military forces use something similar to the UCAS Enhanced Identification Patch (EIP), which appears to be a rugged cloth patch embroidered with the national flag. The threading is IR-reflective, making it highly visible when viewed with low-light sensors (especially after Observe in Detail, p. 147, SR4A) and the patch itself contains a RFID tag for use with the safe target system. A simple flap can cover the patch and the RFID disabled when necessary. 25 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif)

[Arclight]

I'd change the embroidered cloth type to a flexible plastic sheet, though. One on each upper arm, small IR patches on both sides of the helmet. Maybe one on the front side of the assault pack. What about IR beacons? Could be put in the equipment section as personal marker, part of the survival equipment.

[hermit]

I whipped up something like a map for Maracaimbo. Nowhere near complete and I consider expanding my Aztlaner base. It also has a downtown Teocalli. Enjoy.

[Tzeentch]

I'd change the embroidered cloth type to a flexible plastic sheet, though. One on each upper arm, small IR patches on both sides of the helmet. Maybe one on the front side of the assault pack. What about IR beacons? Could be put in the equipment section as personal marker, part of the survival equipment.

-- Hmm. Perhaps:

Positive ID System: Most Sixth World military forces use something similar to the UCAS Enhanced Identification Panels (EIP) to reduce the risk of friendly fire. The EIP is available in various sizes that can be fitted to both vehicles and personnel; the latter of which usually mounts them on the sides of the helmet, shoulders, and back. Each panel is a rugged, flexible plastic material embedded with IR-reflective dye (usually depicting the national flag or unit markings) and a RFID tag for use with the safe target system. In addition, it is now common for the panels to incorporate small LED lights with programmable patterns to aid in identification. The markings and LEDs are designed to be visible using low-light sensors. Spotting a panel on a unit is a free action under most conditions (part of military training includes looking for them) but Observe in Detail (p. 147, SR4A) may be required to make out the exact panel markings. The RFID can be disabled, and the panel covered with a simple flap, when not in use. 25 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) per person, 100 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) for a vehicle.

[Brazilian_Shinob...]

I whipped up something like a map for Maracaimbo. Nowhere near complete and I consider expanding my Aztlaner base. It also has a downtown Teocalli. Enjoy.

Considering that Aztlan can bane spirits or simply blow them to ectoplasmic pieces quite easily (artillery), I don't think blowing up the bridge and summoning water spirits would be enough to halt them, just to slow them.