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> alt.WAR, Fixing War's problems by writing a new book
hermit
post Jan 20 2011, 08:00 AM
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QUOTE
Thank you; yet still I see nothing out of the ordinary about the corp. Seems like pretty vanilla AA to me, concerned with the bottom line first and foremost. What could be "up" with them?

Maybe I am misremembering things (away from books now, will check up), but didn't they have lots of indentured dwarf serfs digging up stuff in the Caucasian mountains?

QUOTE
Mother Stone? Should I be reading Earthdawn?

No, it's just an easter egg Bull dropped, with no further implications.


QUOTE
What an unlikely development - more likely than direct confrontation, but still, crap. Minding that Kamendin became the General Secretary, and SK backed Baichuk (and not only backed, but actively pushed Romanov to betray Kamendin, obviously, something he did not do)... (...)

But oh well, I guess we'll have to go with political influence as the most believable option. One which hurt SK influence in Supreme Soviet, too.

I agree it makes not the most sense, but other than adding SK sugarcoating things, as in that they will help maintain Russian influence and such, and Krupp pulling strings on a massive scale (paving the way for Evo to get much more influence), I don't see any way to explain this, really. Also, I assume that, like in Iraq, there still are Russian 'advisors' left - militaries rarely just drop everything and run, especially if the top brass is deeply invested in the occupied country in question.
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Fatum
post Jan 20 2011, 11:35 AM
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QUOTE (hermit @ Jan 20 2011, 11:00 AM) *
Maybe I am misremembering things (away from books now, will check up), but didn't they have lots of indentured dwarf serfs digging up stuff in the Caucasian mountains?

Haven't found that so far.

QUOTE (hermit @ Jan 20 2011, 11:00 AM) *
Also, I assume that, like in Iraq, there still are Russian 'advisors' left - militaries rarely just drop everything and run, especially if the top brass is deeply invested in the occupied country in question.

The insurgents won. I don't think they'd be glad to accept advisors from the country they have just been fighting.
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hermit
post Jan 20 2011, 11:46 AM
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The insurgents won. I don't think they'd be glad to accept advisors from the country they have just been fighting.

Depends if they "won" by making Russia agree that moving out would be a good idea eventually, or by kicking them out hard. I can see the former much more than the latter, moreso because soch long-term occupation always implicates a significant part of the occupied populace - who profit off the occupation, as was well established in SoE's Poland writeup - and those would hardly want to see Russia just run for it and drop everything (them included) cold. I'd expect more of a transistion of power period, much like America's doing in Iraq. Russia certainly is powerful enough to not just be kicked out like some unwelcome guest all of a sudden.
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Fatum
post Jan 20 2011, 11:13 PM
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Hmm, the only way I see for that to happen is Russian forces stopping the Liberation Army for good. Then, maybe after a year or two of uneasy truce, slowly pulling out, being all "you rybokrats can totally handle it now". Minding that those same rybokrats with Russian help had driven Poland into such poverty that food, water and electricity were rationed by that point, I guess some humanitarian help from SK would have been needed for that transition period.
Then, once the Red Army is out, National Republic Poland just quietly surrenders to Free Poland - maybe holds elections, or old Rybinski just escapes, and the whole thing topples.
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hermit
post Jan 20 2011, 11:14 PM
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Yeah. That makes a bit more sense than Russia being kicked out by guerillas they had pinned down in 2063 already.
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Fatum
post Jan 21 2011, 12:16 AM
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By the by, SoA, SoE and T:SH have three different versions of Border Wars. Is there anywhere a single established version, considered canon? Or a more elaborate write-up than a half-dozen sentences?
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Kyoto Kid
post Jan 21 2011, 05:22 AM
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...apologies for being AWOL for a few days. RL has a habit of demanding your complete attention sometimes.

Hermit, thanks for the vote of confidence. I have been giving this more thought. Finally caught up on the thread and some really nice ideas here concerning Russia.

Again that the Balkans were pretty much ignored helps as the only SR fiction I read were the first few books released back on the 90s. However, should I jump into this, what I do still has to mesh with what is happening in and being written about the rest of Europe/Eurasia.

I always loved the shadowtalk. While I don't feel comfortable using one of the established personalities, the local/regional colour angle is a different story. The one big limitation in the setting I have is that it is very dystopic with communications in Serbia, Montenegro, and Croatia under very tight control and scrutiny of the Belgrade government. Granted, it would make running the airwaves very dangerous and thus create a community of the best local "crackers" who are adept in evading Directorate matrix operatives. Kind of like the "old days".

In spite of a seemingly well equipped and heavy handed Serbian occupation force, there is a strong and tightly knit resistance network within Croatia. One thing I notice is that a military geared more for large scale assaults/confrontations often has a great deal of difficulty dealing with a invisible enemy who wages a guerrilla style war. The British in Northern Ireland, US in Vietnam, USSR in Afghanistan, US in Iraq/Afghanistan are just a few examples where a "superior" military had their hands full with a seemingly "rag tag" yet highly motivated and resourceful resistance force.

In a sense, the Balkans are Europe's "Barrens".
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hermit
post Jan 21 2011, 09:11 AM
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QUOTE
By the by, SoA, SoE and T:SH have three different versions of Border Wars. Is there anywhere a single established version, considered canon? Or a more elaborate write-up than a half-dozen sentences?

Sadly no, but I'd go with SoE, since it's the most recent iteration.

QUOTE
Again that the Balkans were pretty much ignored helps as the only SR fiction I read were the first few books released back on the 90s.

There was a Sarajevo writeup in the short profiles section of Feral Cities, but other than that, yes, it went fully ignored. Synner supposedly had written up a ton of stuff (including on all these microstates in SoE), but it was cut entirely.

QUOTE
One thing I notice is that a military geared more for large scale assaults/confrontations often has a great deal of difficulty dealing with a invisible enemy who wages a guerrilla style war. The British in Northern Ireland, US in Vietnam, USSR in Afghanistan, US in Iraq/Afghanistan are just a few examples where a "superior" military had their hands full with a seemingly "rag tag" yet highly motivated and resourceful resistance force.

Yes, because in the end, most of these forces are easy targets by invisible assassins who don't mind collateral damage. Of course, this diwsregard for the people they want to fight for has broken many resistances' necks (most notably in Iraq, but in Norther Ireland the IRA faced a similar problem).

QUOTE
In a sense, the Balkans are Europe's "Barrens".

Oh, it is. It has been since several hundred years.

One thing of not eis that there SHOULD be a strong Austrian influence in the Balkans. It's their historical backyard and there are ties that run very deep (there's a saying that the Balkans begins in Vienna's 17th precinct). Austria used to own them for well over 600 years prior to 1918. And then there are ties from the Euro-Wars. Austria probably also supports Serbia with tech and advisors, since they represent a force of order in that disorderly region, which would keep ther backs free, provide a buffer zone against the Muslims, and investing ground for several Austrian and German corps and megas.
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Fatum
post Jan 21 2011, 05:58 PM
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Hmm, I'm down to writing the actual structure of Red Army units. How detailed should it be, what do you think? Should it just be like "an armored division has three armor regiments and a battery of heavy SAMs for fire support", or should I actually elaborate, and go for organizational diagrams or full write-ups?
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Brazilian_Shinob...
post Jan 21 2011, 06:08 PM
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I think you could go with the former, few people will bother on looking a diagram to find an especific company or brigade that is interesting for the story.
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hermit
post Jan 21 2011, 06:12 PM
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Gloss it over, but do a specific diagram for a smaller unit, maybe with some names and such (and mooks). Not only for Yakut Shuffle, we can also maybe for Issue 1's faces and units section.
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Fatum
post Jan 21 2011, 06:20 PM
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I guess a diagram of a motorized infantry regiment might do it...
So far, I've just added the history sidebar to my draft, looks rather non-controversial to me, at least as far as I can see.
Here's a full source info compilation.

UPD: added some info on Russian forces in Siberia, wrote up top brass (I tried to drop a hint or two at possible adventure hooks, think it worked?).
Also, the numbers for armed forces I'm getting with established canon are borderline ridiculous, with more than a hundred divisions active in the Red Army at the very least.
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Arclight
post Jan 22 2011, 09:02 AM
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Hi again, next ones are at beta stage:

GoogleDocs: Ares Assault Group

This one is as far as I can get it, for now. I need input on the numbers (too many, too few?) and on the general setup of the unit. So far, it covers pretty much anything you can play or get in contact with in a normal gaming group.

GoogleDocs: some misc military equipment

The combat rations still need game information, also I included Tzzentchs GripPod. I'd suggest we put all other items floating around in this document.

Last, I need some vehicles done:

4 types of t-birds (tank, maybe with a light railgun?; troop-carrier, 10 troopers, armed sufficiently to tear up some houses; medevac, with 4 strechers; rocket artillery, with a VLS type of thing for a load of missiles and 2 UAV pods).

A wheeled APC, heavily armed, for 12 troopers. A medevac type with 4 strechers. A wheeled APC with two mortars.
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sabs
post Jan 22 2011, 05:45 PM
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For a Wheeled APC, Heavily Armed, for 12 troopers, we can do a modified CityMaster.

Call it the Ares Urban Assault Vehicle

s for the medevac, honestly something like the Black Mariah, which is a heavily armored prisoner transport for base,but with different standard options would fit the bill.

Extra entry/exit. 2 Valkyrie mods, and several rigger cocoons with Valkyrie mods in them.

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Fatum
post Jan 22 2011, 06:45 PM
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QUOTE (Arclight @ Jan 22 2011, 12:02 PM) *

Eh, I don't want to sound discouraging, but Brother Occam is surely watching us with a puzzled look. Shadowrun already has two mechanics for weapon alteration - accessories and mods, why are we trying to reinvent the bicycle?
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sabs
post Jan 22 2011, 08:02 PM
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I don't think we need to do a seperate modularsystem

Instead, you can have a modular weapon that has increased modification slots.

+1 for pistols
+2 for automatics
+3 for 'rifles'
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Fatum
post Jan 22 2011, 09:56 PM
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Yeah, or we could just make a mod that increases the number of other mods a weapon can take and swap quickly.
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sabs
post Jan 22 2011, 10:55 PM
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I would rather it be a type of weapon, or a design option.

Like High Velocity
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Arclight
post Jan 22 2011, 11:00 PM
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QUOTE (Fatum @ Jan 22 2011, 09:56 PM) *
Yeah, or we could just make a mod that increases the number of other mods a weapon can take and swap quickly.


This is exactly what it does. It's only a little more precise regarding the size of available options.
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Fatum
post Jan 22 2011, 11:29 PM
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QUOTE (Arclight @ Jan 23 2011, 02:00 AM) *
This is exactly what it does. It's only a little more precise regarding the size of available options.

What it does from what I'm reading is replacing the existing ways of modification with an alternative one. I consider this redundant.
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sabs
post Jan 23 2011, 12:40 AM
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I think it's much better if we treat it like HV.

Modular Weapons are modified designs that use Modular Parts.

cost +1000%
add +1 slot for pistols
+2 slots for automatics
+3 slots for assault rifles and long arms

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Fatum
post Jan 23 2011, 12:46 AM
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+1000% ?!
+100%, I can understand. But ten times the cost for just a couple of slots?!
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sabs
post Jan 23 2011, 12:48 AM
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QUOTE (Fatum @ Jan 23 2011, 12:46 AM) *
+1000% ?!
+100%, I can understand. But ten times the cost for just a couple of slots?!


it's both extra slots, and interchangeable slots.

That's pretty huge.

It's a weapon that can have a gasvent 3 AND a silencer, and a heavy barrel, depending on your needs.

1000 might be too much, but +100 is too low.
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Yerameyahu
post Jan 23 2011, 03:59 AM
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And Powered Slide Mounts? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) So, 3 other existing methods.
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Kyoto Kid
post Jan 23 2011, 07:10 AM
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QUOTE (hermit @ Jan 21 2011, 03:11 AM) *
There was a Sarajevo writeup in the short profiles section of Feral Cities, but other than that, yes, it went fully ignored. Synner supposedly had written up a ton of stuff (including on all these microstates in SoE), but it was cut entirely.

...as I understand it, from a conversation I had with him several years ago, the write-up of the region was lost in a hard drive meltdown.

QUOTE (hermit @ Jan 21 2011, 03:11 AM) *
One thing of not eis that there SHOULD be a strong Austrian influence in the Balkans. It's their historical backyard and there are ties that run very deep (there's a saying that the Balkans begins in Vienna's 17th precinct). Austria used to own them for well over 600 years prior to 1918. And then there are ties from the Euro-Wars. Austria probably also supports Serbia with tech and advisors, since they represent a force of order in that disorderly region, which would keep ther backs free, provide a buffer zone against the Muslims, and investing ground for several Austrian and German corps and megas.

...I have most of the assistance/influence in Serbia coming from the New Soviet side. Yamatetsu is the major mega involved there.

While it might be an interesting plot device for Lofwyr and S-K to attempt bringing about some form of the old Austro-Hungarian Empire again, there are other power players now in the mix, most notably the New Soviet and Serbia, who's Secretariat General has her own political agenda and a mega to back her up. I could see S-K and Austria possibly courting both Slovenia and Hungary as buffer states between them and the Serbo-Croatian conflict.

If anything, Austria and the German States would be more likely to side with their former ally from the last great war of the past century, Kroatien.

Basically war can either be a good business or bad for it.

I look at Lofwyr being patient for now and letting the situation play itself out. After all Secretariat-General Kovec is only a metahuman. If she gets too big for her jackboots, it wouldn't take much "convincing" to put her in her place. Furthermore, I would think there are still more immediate internal issues, such as the restoration of the once highly profitable tourism industry in the Tyrol. Prior to the Manastorm of 2062 it was Austria's cash cow. Afterward, negative media spin caused the region to become a literal ghostland.
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