Shotguns w/ gas vent, Changing the rules?? Options

[Stingray]

After the reading of Missions/Misions based campaigns, i noticed almost constant
breking of rules of SR4/SR4A considering Shotguns w/ Gas vent systems.
By the rules of BBB/Arsenal Shotguns can not have aftermarket gas vent installed.
(as Modification or Accessory).

Have CGL changed the rules or does that rule works only in Missions(missions based Campaigns?? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/question.gif)

[Fauxknight]

Probably just people getting the rules wrong. Personally shotguns can and do have gas vents.

[Yerameyahu]

Except in SR4. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Where they don't.

[Faraday]

Strangely, shotguns can have integral gas vents. Sooo, yeah.

[InfinityzeN]

I always thought that rule was stupid and never used it.

[Yerameyahu]

Presumably, that manufacturer is very clever. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) Design-integral is different from aftermarket, of course.

Obviously, you can use whatever house rules you like. The RAW is that you can't add them.

[Warlordtheft]

What about modding the weapon to have a gas vent? Technically it isn't an aftermarket accessory. (AKA the difference between an integral and mounted smartgun link)

[Yerameyahu]

The Gas-Vent mod is not available for shotguns (nor is the accessory). Mods are aftermarket (not that 'aftermarket' has any special meaning in SR4; I was just using it descriptively).

[Mäx]

Probably just people getting the rules wrong. Personally shotguns can and do have gas vents.

I agree, most likely the writer just forgot that limitation as it makes no fraking sense what so ever.
IRL shotguns can have them and what exactly stop a heavy pistol from having one, whne machinepistols can have them just fine.

[Yerameyahu]

You can house rule whatever you want. You should know better than to compared SR to reality by now, though. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) They gave GV to Automatics and MGs, done.

[warrior_allanon]

honestly i think its an issue of ammo choice, the "standard" ammo for a shotgun is shot, not slug. I on the other hand almost always have used slug so my GM allowed me to put a GV on my shotgun, the only thing is that when i DID use shot the GV did not count toward recoil and i had a chance that it would cause damage to the weapon

[Fauxknight]

honestly i think its an issue of ammo choice, the "standard" ammo for a shotgun is shot, not slug.

I disagree, gas vents should work with either type of ammunition. In either case gas leaves the end of the barrel and is redirected by the vents. There are plenty of instances of shotguns using shot and vents at the same time.

[Mäx]

You can house rule whatever you want. You should know better than to compared SR to reality by now, though.

I have a bigger problem with internal consistency then how it compares to real life, hence the second part of my comment (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Smokeskin]

The consistent way of doing it would be larger recoil penalties for pistols and shotguns, but let them have gas vents. Instead, they went with an easy fix.

[Yerameyahu]

For most SR shotguns, the standard ammo is *slug*, not shot. There are a few that use shot (==flechette).

Again, the game *is* 'consistent': GV are available for automatics and machine guns. A *few* weapons outside of these have design-integral 'gas vents', which is as arbitrary and exceptional as the Ares Alpha's free magical 1 RC, or the White Knight's 5.

[Mäx]

Again, the game *is* 'consistent

Not really, if machine pistols can have them, then there's really no sensible reason why a heavy pistol can't.

[Faraday]

Not really, if machine pistols can have them, then there's really no sensible reason why a heavy pistol can't.

The game is consistent in that Automatics are just better.

[Yerameyahu]

Again, because Automatics are things that need gas vents. By definition, they shoot bursts. Now, Arsenal made it possible for Pistols (heavy or not, not relevant) to do that, but it's hardly the norm for them.

I'm not saying 'don't house rule GV for them in your game'. I'm saying the consistency is obvious: things that by definition shoot bursts get gas vents.

[Zyerne]

The game is consistent in that Automatics are just better.

This has been argued to death before but, among other things..

Pistols are more concealable than MPs

HPs do the same damage as a short burst from a MP, as long as the target has at least 1 point of armor.

Using a suppressor negates GVs anyway.

[scarius]

turning a pistol into something that you can do "burst fire" with isnt that hard, all you really need to do is a little bit of fileing on the right area (yes i know the area, im just not saying) after that you have yourself and auto pistol. but adding a gas vent to said pistol is a little bit harder, because you need to either make the barrel longer and add it to the new part (which is good sometimes) or you need to add it to your current barrel, which is a bit harder but not to much.

shotguns on the other hand are quite easier to do this to, because you all ready have the long barrel, just make sure that you put the holes in the right places as you could stuff up the "pull" of the weapon.

[Fauxknight]

but adding a gas vent to said pistol is a little bit harder, because you need to either make the barrel longer

IRL the easy method (accessory method) would be to look for a pistol with the appropriate barrel to begin with or find one that has replacement barrels available that you can swap in, then picking up a screw on or clamp on muzzle brake. Theres a variety of pistols out there that have these options, but yes, weapons without those options available would be a bit trickier. You could have some vents drilled in the existing barrel, but you might need some slide work done as well it it covers up to the end of the barrel, alternatively you could have a custom barrel made either with vents or threaded for a brake (modification methods).

[KarmaInferno]

If you're going to have the barrel threaded, you might as well also get a matching suppressor/silencer.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)




-k