Mind Over Matter (War!) Options

[LukeZ]

If you use the Adept power of Mind Over Matter: Charisma, do you get to use the Charisma to calculate the base damage of melee attacks?

[Fringe]

"The adept is truly a master of mind over matter and may use one Mental attribute in place of one Physical attribute for any tests." (War!, p. 178)

For base damage? Strength isn't directly used in a test (i.e., you're not rolling Strength), so a strict reading probably wouldn't allow it. On the other hand, it's part of the damage from the opposed melee test, so a more liberal reading could allow it.

I'd probably rule, based on the one quoted sentence, that you'd have to be rolling the relevant attribute directly in a test to replace it. That way also limits the utility of the power to roughly its point value instead of creating an automatic dump stat. For instance, you don't get to wear heavier armor just because you have a high Willpower with this power, since the Body x 2 encumbrance rule isn't a test. The damage/spell resistance test is a test, though, so one could neglect Body and buy the YNT SoftWeave Armor and may be okay.

[Mäx]

Mind Over Matter is pretty lack cluster power as it only replaces the attribute for test, not for all purposes.

So really the only build i see it as any use is a logic tradition combat mystic adept.
I had a couple interesting build ideas when i first read it, but all of those got crushed by the closer reading of the power reveling it only replaces the attribute on tests (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif)

[Ragewind]

Mind Over Matter is pretty lack cluster power as it only replaces the attribute for test, not for all purposes.

So really the only build i see it as any use is a logic tradition combat mystic adept.
I had a couple interesting build ideas when i first read it, but all of those got crushed by the closer reading of the power reveling it only replaces the attribute on tests (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif)

This is correct, I was thinking along the same lines Max, I too am saddened

[Makki]

i was thinking of dumping reaction for intuition, but one can argue, that you roll initiative. that'll suck (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rotfl.gif)

depending on you group this power is either awesome or sucks.
I don't think it's unbalanced for the cost anyways

[Brazilian_Shinob...]

Well, I can see an Elf social adept with a few levels of critical strike taking this.

[Fringe]

Well, I can see an Elf social adept with a few levels of critical strike taking this.

Again, that depends on your GM's reading of the power, since the Strength- (or Charisma-) based damage isn't directly rolled as a test.

The Logic Adept seems to be the best for this power...I don't remember any non-test uses for Agility. Body non-tests for physical damage track and armor encumbrance, Reaction non-tests in being figured into Initiative (which is then a separate stat), and Strength non-tests for base melee damage. If you don't mind giving up one of those, though, you might be okay.

[Brazilian_Shinob...]

Again, that depends on your GM's reading of the power, since the Strength- (or Charisma-) based damage isn't directly rolled as a test.

The Logic Adept seems to be the best for this power...I don't remember any non-test uses for Agility. Body non-tests for physical damage track and armor encumbrance, Reaction non-tests in being figured into Initiative (which is then a separate stat), and Strength non-tests for base melee damage. If you don't mind giving up one of those, though, you might be okay.

I can use an Elf social adept with strength of 1 or 2 with an unarmed damage of 1S and taking, for instance, 6 levels of critical strike, netting a damage value of 7S. The high charisma will be used for any strength-test related (climbing, running, swimming, etc...)

[Eisenbeiß]

Create a Mystic Adept of the hermetic tradition with Log 5, a Cerebral Booster 3 and Mind over Matter (logic) and you should have a good gunman with a very good drain resist pool. Other than that I don't see many good applications for this power. And even this example would be rather mediocre because of his low effective Magic attribute.

[Fringe]

I was thinking of building a Medic Adept. Cerebral Booster 3, SURGEd Metagenetic Improvement (Logic), and Genetic Optimization (Logic) mean I can start with Logic 10 (or 11 if I really want to spend the 25 BP for that last point, or 1 less if I go for Ork or Troll). Biotech skill group at 4 (or I could crank up First Aid to 6 and specialize in Combat Wounds). I've rolled one with bioware and cyberware, but I may give it a go with an adept and Mind Over Matter so I effectively have two attributes at 10.

Even with a Firearms skill group of 1, I'm rolling 11 dice for shooting. That's without Smartlink or other assistance.

With Biotech skill group of 4, I'd be rolling 14 dice for medical stuff. That's without the Rating 6 medkit I'd certainly buy.

Or, with First Aid 6 and Combat Wounds specialization, I'd be rolling 18 dice to heal the street sam's wounds. Again, without the R-6 medkit.

[Makki]

go for imp ability first aid (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif) . you can only heal as much boxes equal to your skilllvl

[Fringe]

go for imp ability first aid (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif) . you can only heal as much boxes equal to your skilllvl

That was one of the powers I was looking at, even though I hadn't remembered that it actually raises the skill rating (maxing out at 1.5 x base rating). That's pretty sweet.

You raise another interesting dilemma, that skill rating caps the boxes healed through First Aid. Further, the specialization doesn't increase the actual skill rating. With the non-adept I'd already rolled, there's basically no way I can get better with First Aid, since max skill is 6 and you can buy a R-6 medkit for 600 nuyen with no Availability roll required. On average, once I'm rolling at least 24 dice (averaging 8 hits before the threshold of 2), there's not much more I can do to get better results. (That's 18 dice before the medkit.) Of course, a 6-box First Aid heal is pretty good anyway, so I shouldn't complain about it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) It certainly makes the healing mage's job easier after that run gone bad.

The only other option seems to be taking the Aptitude (First Aid) quality to let me raise the skill to 7...and then 3 levels of Imp Ability (First Aid) to completely max it to rating 10.

[Eisenbeiß]

Btw: the inversion of Mind over Matter (something like "Body defines Mind") might be much more interesting or what do you think about a Troll who substitutes his charisma 1 with his strength 9?

[Fringe]

Btw: the inversion of Mind over Matter (something like "Body defines Mind") might be much more interesting or what do you think about a Troll who substitutes his charisma 1 with his strength 9?

Or more like the Troll with augmented Strength 15. That troll wouldn't need any social skills; his defaults would be legendary.

[StealthSigma]

I don't remember any non-test uses for Agility.

Agility is used to determine how many rounds you can load into a magazine in a single action. Very useful for semi-auto shotguns.

[Yerameyahu]

Presumably that's why there *is* no 'Body over Mind'. That, and it's nonsensical.

[Eisenbeiß]

I know. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[Yerameyahu]

Hilarious, though. Can you imagine a that troll flexing hard in order to solve a riddle? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[StealthSigma]

Hilarious, though. Can you imagine a that troll flexing hard in order to solve a riddle? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

No, but I can imagine Major Armstrong doing that... using a technique that has been passed down the Armstrong line for generations...

[Wraith235]

No, but I can imagine Major Armstrong doing that... using a technique that has been passed down the Armstrong line for generations...

Posing during Negotiations

[Dakka Dakka]

Hilarious, though. Can you imagine a that troll flexing hard in order to solve a riddle? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

That's about as silly as the elf making his enemies run into his line of fire by looking good (CHA->AGI). Hey it's magic.

[Mäx]

That's about as silly as the elf making his enemies run into his line of fire by looking good (CHA->AGI). Hey it's magic.

Charisma replaces strenght not agility, agility can be replaced with logic.

[Critias]

Charisma replaces strenght not agility, agility can be replaced with logic.

Which actually kind of makes sense, in a "my brain is a built-in tactical computer and smartlink" sort of way.

Figuring out firing lines, estimating bullet drop, hypothesizing about enemy movements, instantly calculating ballistics information, etc, etc, etc. For a decent visual representation of it on tv, just check out the super-genius kid playing quarterback for the first time, on No Ordinary Family. He sees all the angles (literally) and just knows how to throw the ball to the exact right spot.

[Dakka Dakka]

That's from talking without having the book. I thought you could substitute any Physical Attribute with any Mental Attribute.

[Mäx]

That's from talking without having the book. I thought you could substitute any Physical Attribute with any Mental Attribute.

Nope, it uses the same substitutions that are used for astral and only for tests.
Thats why i said the only really useful use for the power is a logic tradition combat mys-ad.