Fan letter to CGL, Because we care Options

[Udoshi]

If you're going to emphasize one thing, you should probably point out that you're very unhappy with the current products, and will likely not be paying for subpar products from a formerly respectable company.

Its all about the money. So point it out.

[otakusensei]

Post edited to include proof reading submitted online.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Thanks Draco18 for the catches, I found another while I was there. Linked version on Google Docs corrected as well.

Kagetenchi, I thought about getting into it, but then I checked Wikipedia for the correct name spelling and in the 20 seconds I spent on that site it was obvious which doctor that section was about. If anyone takes this letter seriously they most likely already have something to go on, and if they need material they have only to look in the book itself. If I do any editing to the length it's going to be cutting size at this point. Anything you see that may be less important than a clarification?

TheMadderHatter, criticism is cool if you have any. Awesome in fact. I like being challenged on my work because I like my work. Not having to worry about being paid for it means I only work on what I want to, and creation in a vacuum sucks. Get it? Anyway I see your point.

Right now I think the important thing is to communicate at all. We all know that posting in a few threads is only going to inform the ones who inform themselves already. But if someone at Topps realizes that they keep getting these letter about CGL it may make them pause for a second and take a look at one or two. Or maybe I have it all wrong and these folks read every letter that crosses their desks. I hope that's true, but I'm not putting money there.

Anyone wishing to work this into their own letter should absolutely lead with whatever issue they feel is the most important or has the most impact. I listed a few things to include in the post above and I'm sure people can find more.

[otakusensei]

If you're going to emphasize one thing, you should probably point out that you're very unhappy with the current products, and will likely not be paying for subpar products from a formerly respectable company.

Its all about the money. So point it out.

A very good point to mention.

I didn't bring it up because I personally have not purchased War!, I found a copy on Scribd that I've been using as a reference. For my letter I hope that the fact that product is substandard and offensive is enough to imply that I won't be purchasing anymore. Stating it after talking about a year of poor product seemed like rubbing their nose in it, which I didn't want to do. Also, I'd guess that they are more concerned with the damage to the line caused by a scandal or a perception of poor quality than the loss of a customer.

To each their own though, and the more approaches the better.

[Acme]

Thanks, but that's the sort of letter I was afraid was going to go out, so I'll have to decline. With the mention of potential scandal and suggestion of just flat out getting rid of the current leaseholder, Topps might just decide to kill the game as a whole, end the line since that would be easier than having to deal with potential problems. After all, they're not a game company and they killed WizKids as a whole in '08 just 'cause of the downturn even though WK was earning profitability on Pirates of the Spanish Main and its connections with the Pirates of the Caribbean films.

[otakusensei]

Thanks, but that's the sort of letter I was afraid was going to go out, so I'll have to decline. With the mention of potential scandal and suggestion of just flat out getting rid of the current leaseholder, Topps might just decide to kill the game as a whole, end the line since that would be easier than having to deal with potential problems. After all, they're not a game company and they killed WizKids as a whole in '08 just 'cause of the downturn even though WK was earning profitability on Pirates of the Spanish Main and its connections with the Pirates of the Caribbean films.

It's a possibility, but if the future of Shadowrun is more books like War! while they spend God knows how long to catch up for all the money that was taken and all the talent that was lost I can't really say I'd like to see it continue.

However I would more suspect that the licenses for BT and SR would be split up of simply moved to a new publisher. Topps basically has a license to print money here, it hands out the IP and it gets paid. It's a pretty sweet deal when their chosen publishers is productive and on the level. And the difference is that Shadowrun has been around for 20 years. I really feel that recent releases have eroded that legacy, but we have books like SR4A and Seattle 2072, and the awards they won, to prove in a very real way the viability of this line. Plus it's due for a new edition, which is a perfect time to turn a buck on a game as all the corebooks need to be reissued.

With the license extension being as far as anyone knows right around now, it's a perfect time to bring up exactly this argument. I just wish we knew if there was a company out there who would offer to pick up the license and run with it.

What I'm trying to say is, don't worry about Shadowrun. It's been through some bad times and it lived to see the fantastic SR4A. The worst thing that can really happen to it is a continued release of low quality, poorly produced books. CGL asked for some time, they got a year. That's more time than I would have at my job, so I want to see what someone else is capable of.

[Brazilian_Shinob...]

As long as it is not the Warlocks that live by the sea shore, I'm ok with it.

[Sengir]

I’ve been unhappy with the quality of Shadowrun products released over the past year. It is my understanding that problems at the current publisher, Catalyst Game Labs, have caused a drastic change in the writing staff after the loss of key creative personnel and freelancers. This is disheartening seeing that some of the best work for the setting was published just over a year ago.

I'd rephrase this, because it essentially says (I'm exaggerating of course) "things could be great again, if only the good old authors came back". Obviously everybody's mileage will vary on this issue, so if that is what you want to say the part is fine.

One talked about section springs to mind as being not only factually incorrect as regards the setting and current version of the rules, but is also potentially offensive and insensitive.

Again YMMV, but how about "but also divided the community about the suitability of the Holocaust as a backdrop for a 'looting campaign'"?
Because for parts of the community, it was not just "potentially offensive".


Oh well, following your example I'll make a late new years resolution to write a mail, too.

[hermit]

That's more time than I would have at my job, so I want to see what someone else is capable of.

Someone should REALLY translate the Berlin book. Not becuase I expect a huge interest in the Berlin setting among international players, but because it shows what other developers are capable of.

[otakusensei]

I'd rephrase this, because it essentially says (I'm exaggerating of course) "things could be great again, if only the good old authors came back". Obviously everybody's mileage will vary on this issue, so if that is what you want to say the part is fine.

If you know the story that's one way of taking it. I'm counting of the audience for this letter knowing maybe an overview, or some CGL specifics. but more than likely they are generally unaware of the day to day situation during that time frame.

I'd love to see some of the old faces come back, but that's because they are skilled, creative and proven. I'm sure there are others out there who can do a great job with the right publisher backing them.

Again YMMV, but how about "but also divided the community about the suitability of the Holocaust as a backdrop for a 'looting campaign'"?
Because for parts of the community, it was not just "potentially offensive".

I really think Arbeit Macht Frei speaks for itself. Anyone who flips to page 120 should have a good idea pretty quick about what's wrong with that section.

I also wanted to avoid the impression that I'm pissed off because of damage to the communities around the webs. While that's pretty high on some folks lists, it's really not something that Topps has any control over. Or honestly should care about maintaining. Getting feedback from the community is a great way to check the state of the game, but it isn't something that they themselves are out to promote except as a secondary effect of a product. Though it is an effect that can potentially increase the value of it's property.

[Sengir]

I'd love to see some of the old faces come back

Most would, but to me it sounds too much like "please bring back my favourite authors".

I also wanted to avoid the impression that I'm pissed off because of damage to the communities around the webs.

Certainly makes sense. I just think that "potentially offensive and insensitive" sounds too much like it was only a theoretical issue and nothing actually happened in that regard.

[Cain]

I'd rephrase this, because it essentially says (I'm exaggerating of course) "things could be great again, if only the good old authors came back". Obviously everybody's mileage will vary on this issue, so if that is what you want to say the part is fine.

My idea of the "good ol' authors" is Nigel Findley, and everyone else as a newcomer, so you can take this a bit more impartially.

I wish that the writing crew were more experienced with the Shadoiwrun world and tropes than they clearly are. I wish the Shadowrun Writers Bible were well-completed and done with. I wish that what experienced writers we have were paid to mentor new writers in the Shadowrun universe, so there can be a stronger continuity.

[nezumi]

The letter is a bit long. I recommend keeping it short and poignant. Try to avoid stuff the reader should already know. I'll make my recommended changes, and you can keep or delete, as you wish.

12/31/10

Dear Sir or Madam,


I am a long-time fan of the roleplayng game Shadowrun. I’ve been unhappy with the quality of Shadowrun products released over the past year. I understand the current publisher, Catalyst Game Labs, has lost a number of key creative personnel and freelancers. This is disheartening and the decline in quality is clear. The Shadowrun 4th Edition Anniversary Core Rule Book is a work of art, and has won awards for it presentation and design. The supplement Seattle 2072 was similarly spectacular.

This December the War! e-book was released. It was meant to cover military operations in the setting of Shadowrun 4th Edition. When I read it, I was shocked. The book suffers from a startling number of typographical errors and inconsistencies. It is a book about specific wars, but contains no maps of the areas it describes. Layout is slipshod in parts and some art appears presented at too large a size for the DPI of the image. This has lead to a product that appears at a glance to be of poor quality. However worse can be found in reading the material.

I was unhappy to find a lack of attention to detail. Inconsistencies and factual errors have been documented on a number of communities online, including the official forums. Some of the sections are also potentially offensive and insensitive.

A section called “WORK BRINGS FREEDOM” encourages game masters to build a story where their players must attack the ghosts of concentration camp victims in order to plunder Auschwitz and collect “necromantic artifacts”; including The Fleshfinder, a scalpel said to once have belonged to Nazi doctor Eduard Wirthz. The scalpel is listed with a price to be sold and mechanics that appear to be inconsistent with the setting, suggesting a lack of thoughtful design and understanding of source material. This section is offensive to many people, and could cause undue negative attention to fall on the Shadowrun line.

I am concerned, given my examination War! and previous publications, that the quality of Shadowrun products is in decline. I do not know that Catalyst Game Labs is producing products of the quality and integrity the Shadowrun line is reknown for. As a fan and customer, I ask that something please be done to improve the quality of the work produced.

Thank you for your attention in this request, and taking the time to hear from me. I look forward to an announcement from Topps soon on the state of their property and measures being taken to protect it.

A concerned Shadowrun fan

I may have been a bit excessive in the penultimate paragraph, but I don't know that it's prudent for anyone here to suggest CGL should not retain the license. For one, it's speaking above our rank. That needs to be Topps's decision. For two, some people who you are trying to get to stand behind this letter don't want to risk pushing the license away from CGL. Just explain the issue, let Topps manage it, and if the publisher fails to rise to the occasion, Topps will at least know why.

[Draco18s]

I do not know that Catalyst Game Labs is producing products of the quality and integrity the Shadowrun line is reknown for

This line makes no sense to me.

[otakusensei]

I like your version as well, Nezumi. I've proofed it and made a pair of stylistic changes to clean up the flow:

12/31/10

Dear Sir or Madam,


I am a long-time fan of the roleplayng game Shadowrun, but I’ve been unhappy with the quality of Shadowrun products released over the past year. I understand the current publisher, Catalyst Game Labs, has lost a number of key creative personnel and freelancers. This is disheartening and the decline in quality is clear. The Shadowrun 4th Edition Anniversary Core Rule Book is a work of art, and has won awards for it presentation and design. The supplement Seattle 2072 was similarly spectacular.

This December the War! e-book was released. It was meant to cover military operations in the setting of Shadowrun 4th Edition. When I read it, I was shocked. The book suffers from a startling number of typographical errors and inconsistencies. It is a book about specific wars, but contains no maps of the areas it describes. Layout is slipshod in parts and some art appears presented at too large a size for the DPI of the image. This has lead to a product that appears at a glance to be of poor quality. However worse can be found in reading the material.

I was unhappy to find a lack of attention to detail. Inconsistencies and factual errors have been documented on a number of communities online, including the official forums. Some of the sections are also potentially offensive and insensitive.

A section called “WORK BRINGS FREEDOM” encourages game masters to build a story where their players must attack the ghosts of concentration camp victims in order to plunder Auschwitz and collect “necromantic artifacts”; including The Fleshfinder, a scalpel said to once have belonged to Nazi doctor Eduard Wirthz. The scalpel is listed with a price to be sold and mechanics that appear to be inconsistent with the setting, suggesting a lack of thoughtful design and understanding of source material. This section is offensive to many people, and could cause undue negative attention to fall on the Shadowrun line.

I am concerned, given my examination of War! and recent publications, that the quality of Shadowrun products is in decline. I do not know that Catalyst Game Labs is producing products of the quality and integrity the Shadowrun line is renown for. As a fan and customer, I ask that something please be done to improve the quality of the work produced.

Thank you for your attention in this request, and taking the time to hear from me. I look forward to an announcement from Topps soon on the state of their property and measures being taken to protect it.

A concerned Shadowrun fan

This version is also available on Google Docs here:

http://goo.gl/tzxki

[Acme]

I think that letter speaks better to the overall issue. While I don't know if I totally agree (it seems people are only flipping out over one book for instance, which I don't know counts as a decline), at least it seems to be worded in a better way that asks them to do something rather than making them think that the easiest option is to just kill the whole thing. I just hope that if they do go to a different publisher that the new pub will be still open to freelance writers....

[otakusensei]

I think that letter speaks better to the overall issue. While I don't know if I totally agree (it seems people are only flipping out over one book for instance, which I don't know counts as a decline), at least it seems to be worded in a better way that asks them to do something rather than making them think that the easiest option is to just kill the whole thing. I just hope that if they do go to a different publisher that the new pub will be still open to freelance writers....

These publishers live and die by freelancer writers, that's not going to change. And honestly, if you owned an idea you could hand to someone to make money off of and they send you back a good cut would you ever consider just not handing it out? People need to worry less about Shadowrun going away. The only thing that is ever going to kill it is the perception that the game is low quality and made my people who don't care.

If you aren't worried about that, then sit back and let CGL spin their wheel another year.

[Acme]

Honestly, it depends. I'm beginning to wonder, with the sentiment around here, if even a good writer going for CGL will be received well in the future. And you seem to keep forgetting that Topps isn't a gaming company, otaku. They're only holding onto keeping it going as long as it makes them money. And it seems like you're painting my degree of caution as CGL fanboyism or something, and I don't appreciate that.

[otakusensei]

Honestly, it depends. I'm beginning to wonder, with the sentiment around here, if even a good writer going for CGL will be received well in the future. And you seem to keep forgetting that Topps isn't a gaming company, otaku. They're only holding onto keeping it going as long as it makes them money. And it seems like you're painting my degree of caution as CGL fanboyism or something, and I don't appreciate that.

I'm sorry if it came across like that. I'm not trying to pick a fight, I'm just saying that your caution may not be very well founded. I'm basing my decision to speak and act as I do on the work that CGL has put out and my own experience interacting with Jason. I don't know where you're coming from, and if I sound like I'm being pushy that's why.

Shadowrun has been through a lot in the past 20 years. No one currently working on it was working on it back then. It's changed hands, and it isn't even owned by it's publisher anymore. If it was, I would be way more cautious. But because it's in the hands of someone who's goal is to monetize it, I'm optimistic that they will work to do just that. And by extension a well earning game is a healthy game, is a well produced game. Or so I'd hope.

Could it pass on to someone who doesn't care and turn it into a crap fest? Sure, but I feel it's knocking on that door right now so there isn't much to lose.

I don't like this idea that battle lines are getting drawn and you're either on one side or the other. There has definitely been some trolling done, both anti- and pro-CGL, and that hasn't helped communication. Someone on the official forums asked me what I wanted, what it would take to get me to back off. I said that if CGL was able to hold themselves to the standards of professionalism and quality that produced SR4A, and return that level of quality to the line, I would have nothing negative to say. I hope that helps to explain where I'm coming from.

[Mesh]

Before you complain about typos, you might want to proof your own letter. I counted three while I skimmed it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Honestly, if you're interested in seeing things improve, being confrontational is not usually productive. It makes the other party immediately defensive. I don't have any suggestions for you. I just wanted to poke you for writing a sloppy piece. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Mesh

[otakusensei]

Before you complain about typos, you might want to proof your own letter. I counted three while I skimmed it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Honestly, if you're interested in seeing things improve, being confrontational is not usually productive. It makes the other party immediately defensive. I don't have any suggestions for you. I just wanted to poke you for writing a sloppy piece. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Mesh

Please let me know what typos you see. I'm quick to correct, both in thread and at Google, and I give credit (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

As for being confrontational, this isn't a letter to CGL. They don't exactly have the best track record for accepting fan criticism.

[Mesh]

Before you complain about typos, you might want to proof your own letter. I counted three while I skimmed it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Honestly, if you're interested in seeing things improve, being confrontational is not usually productive. It makes the other party immediately defensive. I don't have any suggestions for you. I just wanted to poke you for writing a sloppy piece. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Mesh

After re-reading it I found 11.

Mesh

[Mesh]

Please let me know what typos you see. I'm quick to correct, both in thread and at Google, and I give credit (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

As for being confrontational, this isn't a letter to CGL. They don't exactly have the best track record for accepting fan criticism.

Why don't you put forth the effort to find and correct them yourself? If you can make the claim War! is full of them, you should have no problem. This irks me. Rather than invest effort in an angry letter, why not invest it in something that has a direct and positive impact on Shadowrun?

Sorry to come down on you. I am all for quality product. Believe me. As a proofer myself, every typo I read is like a dagger in my eye. There is just too much effort wasted in this community on spite.

Mesh

[Omenowl]

The real question is if shadowrun fails who will pick up the intellectual property? I do not wish it to see it go the way of Star Frontiers and Top Secret.

Complaining to Topps does little especially if you did not buy the book. I feel we are being listened to even if the issues are not addressed as we wish. I wish we would have a clearer push to address errata for Runner's Companion, running wild and War rather than trying to tell Topps our complaints. Sales speak for themselves and the quality of the work directly impacts the bottom line.

From a personal aspect I am willing to accept issues as long as they are addressed in the Errata and the PDFs are updated accordingly with the ability to download the changes if you purchased the PDF.

[Draco18s]

From a personal aspect I am willing to accept issues as long as they are addressed in the Errata and the PDFs are updated accordingly with the ability to download the changes if you purchased the PDF.

But they're not updated. That's the issue. There's known errata for RC and even the PDFs haven't been updated yet.

[otakusensei]

Why don't you put forth the effort to find and correct them yourself? If you can make the claim War! is full of them, you should have no problem. This irks me. Rather than invest effort in an angry letter, why not invest it in something that has a direct and positive impact on Shadowrun?

Sorry to come down on you. I am all for quality product. Believe me. As a proofer myself, every typo I read is like a dagger in my eye. There is just too much effort wasted in this community on spite.

Mesh

Ok, you know how proofing works. Send me what you found and I'll correct it. Otherwise you aren't doing much yourself.

I'm not a proof reader and I don't profess to be a professional writer, I do make grammatical and punctuation mistakes. I've been known to do things with the semi-colon that some people would hunt me down for.

I also think the game being developed by someone else will have a direct and positive effect. Rather than a letter to Topps, I could try writing up a book spec and submitting it in an attempt at becoming a freelancer. But I really wouldn't want to see my idea go through the process that resulted in War!. And that's assuming that I'd even work for CGL or that they would have me. A moot point since I would not work with them. So, fan letter.