Fan letter to CGL, Because we care Options

[Kagetenshi]

Frankly, if the only reviews are biased against the game line as a whole, I'm not doing myself a service by listening to them, am I? Lately, any review of a SR product here is like trying to get a book review of the Quran as reviewed on Fox News.

So your assertion is that "recent reviews are negative" implies "reviews are biased"?

~J

[Acme]

So your assertion is that "recent reviews are negative" implies "reviews are biased"?

~J

Not all of them, but from reviews like Cain, who has had a clear axe to grind with the game line since 4A and before the quality supposedly took a downturn, then yes, I'd call that biased.

[Cain]

Then check the other forums. There's negativity towards War! on RPG.net and the official Shadowrun forums. Even die-hard fans have their limits, where is yours?

I hit mine a while ago, but that's just me. My quick scan of War! isn't good enough to change my mind. It'd take something seriously good to make me and others break the boycott. I had high hopes for War!, but a post on the SR4.5 official forums by Jason Hardy said that he was more focused on putting out product to make money for CGL than fixing slipshod existing product. That's a formula for failure, and not likely to bring back the fans.

Edit: I haven't reviewed War!. I haven't even finished reading it. I might, if I have the time, post a full review sometime in the future, but someone beat me to it.

[Acme]

My limit does have a point, but at least till I personally read the book then I won't know if that's reached it or not. I will say that I disagree with the general consensus that it represents a downward trend, since I liked the last couple of books that have come out, even with SWA having the two years that were screwed up. If War is bad, that means, to me at least, it's one bad book. One. But this is my opinion. That's all. Cain, this is definitely not the first time you and I have gone around about your axe.

Look, I'm not going to distract this thread any more with this, it's supposed to be about the letter and it's going way off.

[otakusensei]

My limit does have a point, but at least till I personally read the book then I won't know if that's reached it or not. I will say that I disagree with the general consensus that it represents a downward trend, since I liked the last couple of books that have come out, even with SWA having the two years that were screwed up. If War is bad, that means, to me at least, it's one bad book. One. But this is my opinion. That's all. Cain, this is definitely not the first time you and I have gone around about your axe.

Look, I'm not going to distract this thread any more with this, it's supposed to be about the letter and it's going way off.

I'm glad you voiced your opinions about SWA and explained your position. I know personally I have my experience during the leak, talking with Jason and then seeing the few books that have come out to gauge off of. Based on that I've made up my mind about the current CGL, and War! just cemented it.

I'd like to think I am being fair about my dislike, though I know there are some people who wouldn't believe that. I can't comment on SWA myself, because I've never seen it and only have a few specific mentions of it's contents. Corp Guide is on the shelf at my FLGS, and it looks like it's going to stay there. While it's not War! bad, I can say it didn't get my motor running like past setting books did. There are some ideas, but it was kinda "meh" for the most part. I'll admit that might also be fallout from the whole business with Loren Coleman and Jason Hardy clouding my experience as well, but if it really was fantastic I'd expect to see higher praise around the web.

I guess that's what I mean by a decline in the letter. It wasn't like walking off a cliff, it's just that things feel like they are on a slope and we're getting further and further from SR4A.

I'll be interested to hear what you have to say once you see War!.

[Acme]

The only other thing I'd like to add otaku, is that we can't all base our like/dislike of things based on the praise/dislike of others. That's why I said from the beginning that I'd wait till I actually held the book in my hands. I REALLY liked Corp Guide, it brought in a lot of interesting stuff to me, fleshed out Horizon (which was needed) and obviously set up that future Universal Brotherhood thing they're hinting at with them (if that book ever gets off the ground). I know that if THAT book goes the way that people are saying War! has then I'll definitely be ticked off.

If CGL is really screwing things up like FanPro did at the end of its tenure with the lousy SOTA books, then yes, we need to get this letter out and shake things up. I wasn't railing about that, you've already known that I'm just being cautious anyway with hoping this doesn't make Topps just decide to kill the whole idea.

I guess that's the biggest thing I'm worried about. Topps had a good thing going with WizKids, and WK just got a spike of popularity with the pirates games due to the movies, and they got killed off anyway due to the downturn in the economy. And with baseball cards flattening out completely, Topps largely only has its candy stuff to really make money from so I wouldn't doubt they'd be snipping stuff off to save any cash. And while yes, they're not MAKING the books, I'm sure there's still some consideration that they'll just pull it off if it's not making money at all. I look at Hasbro and I'm worried and frustrated at the sort of decisions that non-game companies that own game companies/licenses make...

[Omenowl]

Which is part of why the complaints come out, I fear. If your GM has to re-write mechanics in order to make them playable, why is he bothering to buy the books at all?

Probably because there is not a single book I wouldn't tweak a few rules or at least use some of the optional rules suggested in the books. There is a difference between rewriting core rules and tweaking mechanics. Some mechanic tweaks I would do:

Street magic for Attunement animal. Change cost and scope. Attunement animal needs some major revamping and even the rules encourage some modifications or closer examination of the cost. There are few others for adept powers, etc and spirits such as possession/inhabitation.
Arsenal: Emotitoys would be an either or not a dice adder
Augmentation: Bioware and cyberware have maintenance costs
SR4A: Hardened armor I would subtract from modified DV. I would reduce edge pool as you use it until it can be refreshed. The more you use it the less lucky you become. Probably get rid of the first aid skill, increase firearm and weapon groups to include exotics, etc.
Runner's Companion: Metavariant costs, infection levels, etc. I like the book, but it needs a lot of work.
Running wild: Some warforms, cost and training times for adepts
War: Working on that one. I would probably ignore a lot of the excessive damage pools as they add nothing to game play.

[Squinky]

No product is going to appeal to everyone. There are little things that bug me, that make perfect sense to others in Shadowrun.

Personally, I'm surprised at the tone on the old internet lately. I was scared off Shadowrun a while back with the little drama, but have been really impressed with how things have shaped up. There have been long dead periods in Shadowrun's history, with nothing being published. That isn't happening now, there is stuff, good stuff in my opinion.

I can understand if you guys are frustrated, but I don't think your letter will amount to much beyond another envelope in a stack.

[Kagetenshi]

There have been long dead periods in Shadowrun's history, with nothing being published.

When was this?

~J

[CanRay]

When was this?

~J

Right after I bought "Street Magic" when it first came out. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

Boy was I disappointed. Went out to used book stores and the local hobby shoppe that used to buy used game books. Made me a popular customer for a bit.

[Kagetenshi]

There's certainly been one long dead period, from what I hear. I'm more interested in hearing about the cases that make it plural.

~J

[Cain]

My limit does have a point, but at least till I personally read the book then I won't know if that's reached it or not. I will say that I disagree with the general consensus that it represents a downward trend, since I liked the last couple of books that have come out, even with SWA having the two years that were screwed up. If War is bad, that means, to me at least, it's one bad book. One. But this is my opinion. That's all. Cain, this is definitely not the first time you and I have gone around about your axe.

Look, I'm not going to distract this thread any more with this, it's supposed to be about the letter and it's going way off.

Yes, this isn't the first time you've accused me of having an axe to grind, and it won't be the first time you're way off.

But to get back to the letter, the point is that hurting a company's bottom line is a louder message than any number of fan letters. Boycotting War! because it's a shoddy product is not the same thing as trying to smother CGL in its sleep. The point of this letter is to send a wake-up call, and the profit margin is where that call will be heard.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Yes, this isn't the first time you've accused me of having an axe to grind, and it won't be the first time you're way off.

But to get back to the letter, the point is that hurting a company's bottom line is a louder message than any number of fan letters. Boycotting War! because it's a shoddy product is not the same thing as trying to smother CGL in its sleep. The point of this letter is to send a wake-up call, and the profit margin is where that call will be heard.

Assuming you can actually get a large enough group organized to show as anything other than a minor blip on the bottom line... Which I would highly doubt... If I remember correctly, you commented that as little as 500 people who did not purchase the product would have a significant effect on the bottom line. I call BS on that sentiment... with the 100's of thousands to Millions of gamers worldwide, 500 non-consumers would make absolutely no difference whatsoever...

And it will not affect Topps at all, as they already have their money from the licensing.

Anyways... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)

[nezumi]

So, we have a pretty final version of the letter, and addresses to send it to. Anyone willing to contribute $.40 for a stamp?

I'm taking myself off that list because I got off the Shadowrun train not long after Kage and Kyoto Kid. Sorry guys, I don't think it's my game any more...

[Draco18s]

So, we have a pretty final version of the letter, and addresses to send it to. Anyone willing to contribute $.40 for a stamp?

I'll do it. Just link me to the final version.

[KarmaInferno]

with the 100's of thousands to Millions of gamers worldwide, 500 non-consumers would make absolutely no difference whatsoever...

There might be that many gamers, but there aren't that many SHADOWRUN players.




-k

[otakusensei]

So, we have a pretty final version of the letter, and addresses to send it to. Anyone willing to contribute $.40 for a stamp?

I'm taking myself off that list because I got off the Shadowrun train not long after Kage and Kyoto Kid. Sorry guys, I don't think it's my game any more...

I'm thinking about sending it registered mail. It's a little on the expensive side ($10), but I know from working in an office environment that it's certainly taken more seriously than normal priority mail. Maybe I'll consider this an extension of voting with my wallet?

Now I just need to get out of work and hit the post office...

[Blade]

Great. I suggest sending it to both CGL (because they're the ones responsible for the problems) and Topps (because they can make things change).
I know some of you want to send it to Topps only, but I think it's more respectful to send it to CGL too. It'll show that we're not working against CGL but with Shadowrun.

I also suggest creating a topic where people can sign, and insert a link in the letter, to show that the letter comes from the community rather than just one guy.

I'm writing one for the French community, I hope to have it done and sent by tomorrow.

[Draco18s]

I also suggest creating a topic where people can sign, and insert a link in the letter, to show that the letter comes from the community rather than just one guy.

I'd suggest that anyone who actually cares print out the letter and mail it themselves.

An internet petition* really doesn't hold much weight. In fact, it holds less weight than only 20 people sending first class postage identical letters.

*Which is what a thread with "signatories" is.

[Brazilian_Shinob...]

I'm thinking about sending it registered mail. It's a little on the expensive side ($10), but I know from working in an office environment that it's certainly taken more seriously than normal priority mail. Maybe I'll consider this an extension of voting with my wallet?

I knew post services were expensive in the US, but TEN dollars? I can send a registered letter from Brasil to US for less than ten brazilian reais (which is almost six american dollars).

[Draco18s]

I knew post services were expensive in the US, but TEN dollars? I can send a registered letter from Brasil to US for less than ten brazilian reais (which is almost six american dollars).

$10.60 to be precise.

[Method]

I'd suggest that anyone who actually cares print out the letter and mail it themselves.

An internet petition* really doesn't hold much weight. In fact, it holds less weight than only 20 people sending first class postage identical letters.

*Which is what a thread with "signatories" is.

Can't hurt to do both.

[nezumi]

Most recent version (I inserted an additional line at the end of paragraph 1):


1/4/11


Dear Sir or Madam,


I am a long-time fan of the roleplayng game Shadowrun, but I’ve been unhappy with the quality of Shadowrun products released over the past year. I understand the current publisher, Catalyst Game Labs, has lost a number of key creative personnel and freelancers. This is disheartening and the decline in quality is clear. The Shadowrun 4th Edition Anniversary Core Rule Book is a work of art, and has won awards for it presentation and design. The supplement Seattle 2072 was similarly spectacular. Quality has since declined.

This December the War! e-book was released. It was meant to cover military operations in the setting of Shadowrun 4th Edition. When I read it, I was shocked. The book suffers from a startling number of typographical errors and inconsistencies. It is a book about specific wars, but contains no maps of the areas it describes. Layout is slipshod in parts and some art appears presented at too large a size for the DPI of the image. This has lead to a product that appears at a glance to be of poor quality. However worse can be found in reading the material.

I was unhappy to find a lack of attention to detail. Inconsistencies and factual errors have been documented on a number of communities online, including the official forums. Some of the sections are also potentially offensive and insensitive.

A section called “WORK BRINGS FREEDOM” encourages game masters to build a story where their players must attack the ghosts of concentration camp victims in order to plunder Auschwitz and collect “necromantic artifacts”; including The Fleshfinder, a scalpel said to once have belonged to Nazi doctor Eduard Wirthz. The scalpel is listed with a price to be sold and mechanics that appear to be inconsistent with the setting, suggesting a lack of thoughtful design and understanding of source material. This section is offensive to many people, and could cause undue negative attention to fall on the Shadowrun line.

I am concerned, given my examination of War! and recent publications, that the quality of Shadowrun products is in decline. I do not know that Catalyst Game Labs is producing products of the quality and integrity the Shadowrun line is renown for. As a fan and customer, I ask that something please be done to improve the quality of the work produced.

Thank you for your attention in this request, and taking the time to hear from me. I look forward to an announcement from Topps soon on the state of their property and measures being taken to protect it.




A concerned Shadowrun fan


This version is also available on Google Docs here:

http://goo.gl/tzxki



You are welcome to edit it, but be careful not to come off as overly hostile or critical.

[otakusensei]

Sending to CGL as well as Topps is a good gesture, but I don't know if that route is worth the additional $10.60. Maybe $0.40 though. This way we can test their new processes and see if they are paying more attention to their mail (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Edit: The version available on Google has now been updated to the current version above.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

There might be that many gamers, but there aren't that many SHADOWRUN players.

-k

Point being that there are no hard statistics about HOW MANY Shadowrun players there are out there... My guess is in the 10's of Thousands...

Thinking that a Very Vocal MINORITY can effectively influence the bottom line of a Publishing Company is just ludicrous in my opinion... If you don't like the book, don't buy it... I am sure that no one will really notice all that much... There are, after all, many people that are not all that upset about War!... A good few of them here on Dumpshock even. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)