Battle Rifles, Automatics or Longarms? Options

[CanRay]

Would have been better to get them back in the hands of soldiers in Vietnam. I've heard more than one soldier complain about the replacement of the M-16s.

"We then scrimped and fought to get the M-14s we turned over back in our hands, but they'd already shipped out..."

I mean, you'd have to look at something like the Ross Rifle for worst long arm to issue troops for the situation. (Which would be another Battle Rifle, if it wasn't for the fact that it was a really crappy rifle for combat. Good target rifle, maybe a decent hunting rifle, worthless in combat. Absolutely worthless in the mud trenches of France!).

[InfinityzeN]

The problem with the Ross Rifle was not that it wasn't a good rifle, but the fact that it wasn't soldier proofed. Actually, part of the problems with the M16 were caused by the fact that it had really sucky soldier proofing. The AK47 on the other hand is one of the most soldier proofed weapons ever designed.

[CanRay]

No, the problem with the Ross Rifle is that it doesn't handle non-laboratory conditions. Even as a Hunting Rifle you have to be careful with it in the field. As a soldier's weapon, it downright sucks. (Not to mention the tendency of having the bolt be able to be put in backwards with dramatic results!).

I recall reading once that the M-16 was designed for the US Air Force, for their guards to patrol air fields. Which isn't too bad. As a standard issue rifle for a jungle, BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAD idea! Oh, "And it's so futuristic that you don't even need to clean it.", IIRC, the designer nearly had a heart attack when he heard that troops had been told that. And, a funny one, "The recoil is so light, you can shoot it off your forehead.", apparently someone thought it was funny to tell a Marine that... So he did.

And, apparently it's having an issue with the fine sand of Afghanistan. Although, to be fair, almost everything has a problem with that...

To sum up everything... "They just don't build 'em like they used to..."

[Omenowl]

The M-16 is considered a good rifle now. The problem was how it was marketed They claimed and the US Army believed you did not need to clean the weapon and that caused many of the jams. They claimed the change in ammunition fixed the issue, but they also added a cleaning kit to the weapon. Compared to the AK-47 the M-16 has Low recoil, decent accuracy and lightweight makes it fine for soldiers who take care of their weapons.

[Brazilian_Shinob...]

No, the problem with the Ross Rifle is that it doesn't handle non-laboratory conditions.

So, the rifle only works if shot in a vaccuum enviroment targeting cylindric people? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/silly.gif)

[Yerameyahu]

Spherical.

[Brazilian_Shinob...]

Now you are being silly (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

[CanRay]

The Ross Rifle? Pretty much. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif) The Ross will jam if dirty, and fighting (And even hunting) is dirty business. Compare that to the SMLE which pretty much soldiers on in the worst conditions on Earth. (Mud Trenches, Jungles, Deserts, the Arctic Circle where it's still the Standard Issue for Canadian Rangers as most Assault Rifles jam, and so on.).

As for the M-16, I think it's reputation will linger until it's replaced at last. And a LUGGAGE HANDLE! (Sorry, ".303" reference. Good comic.).

So, yeah, griping out old weapons aside, back to Battle Rifles of Shadowrun! ... Anyone know what the UCAS Standard Issue is?

[Brazilian_Shinob...]

Following the "logical" pattern, I would say it is the Colt M23.

[Yerameyahu]

And then you've got the carbine, and the water version, etc. Handy.

[WyldKnight]

I thought this would be the best place for this but what are the stats and details on battle rifles from War? I don't want to buy it for what is probably one page of information that I want. Then again I guess I could buy it, copy that page, and then return it but that seems like bad taste.

[InfinityzeN]

Take a sport rifle, give it 20~30 round clip, burst fire capability, and you got a battle rifle. That is pretty much what they did.

[Yerameyahu]

Rightly so.

[WyldKnight]

Thats it huh? Awesome, thanks.

[CanRay]

Well, that's all a Battle Rifle is, actually, when you think about it.

I mean, a number of Sniper Rifles are basically militarized Hunting Rifles. The Remington 700 is the basic design for the US Marine Corps M40 Sniper Rifle.

So you have Semi-Auto Combat Rifles/Hunting Rifles (Like the M1 Garand, which was the basis for the M-14) made into Battle Rifles by the replacement of barrels to Match Grade and a scope mount added, and a modification to allow for burst fire. Have a nice day. Won't work for old Bolt Action Combat/Hunting Rifles, admittedly. But I'm sure the ol' SMLEs and Kar 98Ks are still around for shooting game and home intruders.