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grahariel
post Dec 29 2010, 06:18 AM
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Okay, one thing I had trouble with in my last session was creating viable corporate security. I had my guys extracting an employee from a Universal Omnitech facility, however, the mission was too damn easy. And I've looked through Corporate Enclaves, Corporate Guide, and the corebook, but there doesn't seem to be a detailed description of what corporate security would be (i.e. how many mages, mercs, drones, etc). I want to challenge my players next time around, but don't want to kill them. Is there a flexible formula that can be tweaked when needed to for constructing formidable, but not impossible security for corporate buildings? Any contributions would really help.
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imperialus
post Dec 29 2010, 07:41 AM
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So much depends on the facility itself. UO is a AA corp which means it has a right to maintain (for all intents and purposes) a standing army. This means that the variety of security you could find would be as varied as the difference in security between a county records office and the Pentagon. Well maybe not the Pentagon but you get the idea. Also a lot depends on the makup of your runner team. If you have a massive troll tank who can shrug off assault cannon rounds, a mage with control actions, or a tweaked out technomancer you'll need to adjust accordingly.

If they are extracting an employee, that suggests that he was working on something valuable. If he's working on something valuable then UO is going to protect their investment. However they also aren't going to want security to be so obvious that it interferes with their employees ability to work and therefor turn a profit. They also aren't going to want it to be so expensive that it adversely affects their bottom line. All told lets say that the UO facility has a 'middling' level of security.

This means that the outer layer of security is going to be passive (and probably pretty similar regardless of corp). Things like vehicle barriers, bullet resistant glass, MAD and chemsniffers, friendly looking (likely human) security guards, wearing lighter armour (probably vests) and packing pistols with a weapons locker in easy reach which contains SMG's or Shotguns depending on which flavor of the week you want. They aren't there to prevent a serious attack. Their job is to screen people coming in, and press a panic button if they need to. The corp sec grunts on SR4A p 281 should do just fine for this job. The only other aspect of the outer layer that is key is lots of cameras, watched by a security spider who might not even be on site.

For less conventional entrances like the loading docks or parking garage there probably isn't even a human element. Just the security spider and a good thick door. The vehicle barrier and gate doesn't open without some sort of keycard, corp SIN or something along those lines and any attempts to tamper with it sets off alarms with the spider.

For gameplay sake I personally would suggest the building having a 'weak point' that can be exploited by the runners and let them get through this outer layer without setting off alarms. In keeping with one of my central GMing philosophies I'd also suggest that the 'weak point' happen to center around whatever (reasonable) plan the runners come up with. If you let the PC's operate under the assumption that every corp facility is a veritable fortress that's when you start seeing them loading up delivery vans with fertilizer and diesel just because they get frustrated trying to crack the puzzle.

Once they're in, I assume you would want something to go wrong so they have to fight their way out. The security guards aren't going to do much more than tie the runners up for a few rounds. The security rigger is the real delaying tactic. He's going to lock down the building. As a middling level facility there probably won't be hidden gunports and raildrones everywhere. What he can do though is lock down the doors, forcing the teams hacker to waste time at each one busting it open. If your hacker is a real A-Lister he can call in backup as well. One spider can be nasty, 2 or 3 can be a nightmare.

The purpose of all this delaying is to give the nearest high threat response team time to mobilize and get on site, or to funnel the team towards them if they already are. For a AA corp I'd give them a professional rating of 4 and probably base them off the Lone Star Lieutenants with heavier armour and weapons just to make my life easier. Since UO is a biotech corp I'd swap out the Star officers cyberware for bioware. The key thing with these guys is tactics. Killing shadowrunners is what they do, and they should be good at it. With the spider they will have the information advantage and they should use it to funnel the runners into locations where they have the advantage, support them with a drone or two, doberman are nice and a Steel Lynx will ruin anyone's day. Magical support would come into the mix here too. Even having a spirit or two tasked to the HTRT could cause absolute mayhem for a runner team, nevermind an actual mage along for the ride.

Also don't forget the facility itself. If this is a biotech facility there is a good chance that they have decontamination protocols and the like already in place. Spraying a runner down with the same same gawdawful substance used to prevent weaponized anthrax or smallpox from getting out is going to ruin any runners day.

Once the runners get out it can also be assumed that UO would have alerted LS or KE or whatever cops you are using as well.
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grahariel
post Dec 29 2010, 12:43 PM
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Wow, thanks. Yeah, I guess they purposely leave that up to the GM. I was just wondering if there was a standard outline for security like they had for the node examples in Unwired.
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nezumi
post Dec 29 2010, 02:08 PM
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Keep in mind also that the value of corporate security is not their own physical threat, but rather what else they can trigger. That rent-a-cop may be a pushover, but his biomonitor means that an HTR team and full facility lock-down is only a heartbeat away...
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imperialus
post Dec 29 2010, 04:02 PM
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QUOTE (grahariel @ Dec 29 2010, 05:43 AM) *
Wow, thanks. Yeah, I guess they purposely leave that up to the GM. I was just wondering if there was a standard outline for security like they had for the node examples in Unwired.


Unfortunately no... Shadowrun PC's tend to be so specialized it's almost impossible to come up with a generalized plan to suit every runner team. What one team might find an absolute cakewalk another might find themselves getting their teeth kicked in. What is a bit easier though is to design an framework that can challenge individual groups over and over again. If you can give some more info on what the makeup of your team is, and what it was about the last facility that made it too easy I might be able to offer more specific suggestions.

Also if you have the cash to spare consider picking up Ghost Cartels. The stats for the FBI team and the Docwagon team are a fantastic baseline for a generic 'corp response' team.
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sabs
post Dec 30 2010, 03:25 PM
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Also, don't be shy in giving the HRT team a TACNet Bonus once they get on site.

They've got a Spyder with access to every camera and sensor in the building. Start them out at 4 (if your up against prime runners) and drop the rating down as the team disables cameras, and their hacker hacks his way into the system. If the Hacker kicks the crap out of their spyder. Switch it over, and allow the team to have a temporary tacnet of say.. 2 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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Aerospider
post Dec 30 2010, 05:50 PM
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QUOTE (sabs @ Dec 30 2010, 03:25 PM) *
Also, don't be shy in giving the HRT team a TACNet Bonus once they get on site.

They've got a Spyder with access to every camera and sensor in the building. Start them out at 4 (if your up against prime runners) and drop the rating down as the team disables cameras, and their hacker hacks his way into the system. If the Hacker kicks the crap out of their spyder. Switch it over, and allow the team to have a temporary tacnet of say.. 2 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

No specifics to offer, but perhaps the following theories will be of use.

I'd say you're right to err on the side of caution - in general too easy is way more fun than too hard. Besides, it's better to up the security gradually adventure by adventure than slowly decreasing it from TPK levels.

Keep things unpredictable - the players will get bored if the same trick works every time. That's not to say the same trick should never work twice of course, but show them how much security strength can vary across the disciplines.

Imperialus gave some excellent pointers, but I would really avoid tailoring the opposition to the team's plan for fear of making the whole adventure somewhat contrived. Any half-decent plan should be allowed some chance of success, but IMO the team should be challenged in terms of flexibility and fore-sight. If they don't research the weak point in advance then don't reward them by just handing it to them, and if they can't be bothered with contingency planning then hard times should be inevitable.

Final tip - it's ok if security is a bit too tough. Sometimes runners fail and sometimes runners die. So long as it's only once in a while and the players are never helpless to avoid it, it makes the sweet times that little bit sweeter.
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kzt
post Dec 30 2010, 07:03 PM
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QUOTE (imperialus @ Dec 29 2010, 01:41 AM) *
If you let the PC's operate under the assumption that every corp facility is a veritable fortress that's when you start seeing them loading up delivery vans with fertilizer and diesel just because they get frustrated trying to crack the puzzle.

Well designed defenses mean you need at least two. ... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

QUOTE
Also don't forget the facility itself. If this is a biotech facility there is a good chance that they have decontamination protocols and the like already in place. Spraying a runner down with the same same gawdawful substance used to prevent weaponized anthrax or smallpox from getting out is going to ruin any runners day.

Autoclaves or equipment decon showers. "Hey, no security on this door!" We have a couple that you could fit a a half dozen people into. ... And a room sized autoclave is REALLY tough, as it is designed to be filled with high pressure superheated steam. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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Tiralee
post Feb 1 2011, 04:32 AM
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This might be a dead thread, but I had the same issue with our current (SR3) Run.

Team's breaking into a JHIH facility on a remote Caribbean island, so that's cool, no Lonestar backup...but we can't exactly disappear into the crowd, either.

..But there's no facility above ground, just a whole bunch of cybered, bio'ed guards and their paracritters.
And observation drones.
And pressure sensors.
And vibration tremblers.
And Watcher spirits.
And nature spirits.
And Assault Drones.
And sensor-tied landmines.

No fences, just a jungle island with a few concrete shells of a powerhouse, etc left, with 2 viable ways in, both lifts. (Biiiiig lifts, industrial and 20-30 man personnel lift.)

This is a Zero-Zero zone, but the guards seem to want to capture (Gel/Capsule rounds) rather than kill. Of course, by the time we got INTO the place, that's when the Steel Lynx and Arthro drones came out. And the homebrew "Gorilla" Heavy drone (walking blockhouse)

1x security rigger (Dumpshocked and unconcious, brought up again with copious stimpatches by his medical drones and life-support mobile pod.)
1 x security decker (Backup for rigger)
3 x Shamen (all multiple-grade initiates.) Dog, Gryphon and Owl. (Usually keep an 4-hour roating watch (Owl more at night) and then do ordinary magical tasks. On alert, they're all up and active)
1 x Physad (Went down like a punk to 2 x Assault Cannon rounds firing AV. 14 successes = you're not going to dodge out of it that well...)
1 x Aspected mage (Conjuring)
10 guards "In facility"
20 x Steel Lynx
Multiple tracks of fixed gun drones
56 x anthroform drones (armed with onboard taser and Ingram Supermach-type SMG's loaded with capsule or gel)
8 Gorillas. (1 lost outside, one destroyed in ambush, 6 jumped the team, was one init turn from TPK)


etc, etc, etc.

If you've got a decker, or can hack a rigger into the SSC, you're laughing.
As for the runners, for the most part, if your team has enough AV rounds, medkits and magic, it's really really HARD keeping them out.

-Tir.
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CanRay
post Feb 1 2011, 05:01 AM
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Depends on the facility in question... If it's just some office drones, there'll be a minimum wage security guard making sure they don't walk off with anything and keeping the general public out with his taser. (Rent-A-Cop, Contacts and Adventures, Page 10.).

Medium Security, well, you'd have some actual security guards Corporate Security Unit (SR4A, Page 281) and some older model drones. Hey, doesn't "This Old Drone" have some cool options? Yes, yes it does.

High Security, well, they'll have their version of Red Samurai Detachment (SR4A, Page 283), and you see all those fun toys that are out of the 'Runners Price Tags? Yeah, those too.

Insane Security... Well... They just might have a small dragon running security.
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Saint Sithney
post Feb 1 2011, 07:50 AM
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Universal Omnitech is your leader in cybernetic design and implementation.

A trio of ridiculous full-body cybermonsters could easily cause problems for any team.
Formori tank - soaks with around 45 dice. kicks magic's ass.
Cybered Chaos mage - logic boosters and pain editor mean huge drain pools for summoning ungodly spirits over and over again.
Akimbo HV elven gunner - can engage basically the whole team with direct machine gun fire every pass to keep them on full dodge.
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Makki
post Feb 1 2011, 03:00 PM
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sounds like a runner team who switched sides. but you're right. that's what I'd do. give the runners their own medicine specially design depending on the corp.
stealing from UO or Evo? Cybermonsters
stealing from Ares? one military drone battalion freshly built
stealing from Neonet or Renraku? don't try hack matrix security, you'll get arachnophobia
Wuxing might have some floors fully aspected. bad for the team's awakened unless they happen to be wujen
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CanRay
post Feb 1 2011, 04:10 PM
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Stealing from Horizon, and you get Spam. Lots and lots of spam that reprograms your VERY MIND!
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Ascalaphus
post Feb 1 2011, 04:19 PM
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Penis enlargment to the point where your blood pressure simply fails.
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Warlordtheft
post Feb 1 2011, 07:28 PM
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I usually design the security based on what I think is appropriate for what is being protected. Not the ability of the PCs or their plan.

For example of low security:
1. Warehouse full of marketing chotsky's would warrent asecurity spyder (offsite), a half dozen drones at most and maybe 2-3 guards.
2. Office building for accounting: 5-6 armed guards, plus a security rigger, about a dozen drones, and 5-10 security guards.

HTRT response would be 10 minutes for either location.

For high security:
1. Corporate research facility: Two spyders (on site, can call for off site back-up) with armed drones and gun mounts, 20 to 30 guards depending on value and remote ness, 2 to 4 Wage mages with spirits and watchers, at least one guy who is street sam capable (usually head of security). An HTR team is only 10 minutes away, but the facility is better able to hold out on its own or have an on site HTR team. Passive sensors present in just vital areas that are not trafficked regularly.

COrprate Zero zone:
Mmmm, think of the most paranoid person--give him an almost unlimited securtiy budget and see what happens.
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CanRay
post Feb 1 2011, 08:48 PM
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QUOTE (Warlordtheft @ Feb 1 2011, 03:28 PM) *
COrprate Zero zone:
Mmmm, think of the most paranoid person--give him an almost unlimited securtiy budget and see what happens.

I'm sorry, were you referring to me?

And where's my damned budget???
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Neurosis
post Feb 2 2011, 12:43 AM
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There was a similar thread semi-quasi-recently where myself and others unloaded a lot of advice on this topic.

Ah, here it is!

If stat blocks for corporate security are all (or part) of what you're looking for, I've made some of those too. Remember that enemy stat blocks are a BIG part of difficulty level. If your team was competent and your runners were only up against the Corporate Security unit from the 4E corebook (Professional Rating 2) then it's no wonder they cut through the enemy like a hot knife through butter.
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Raiki
post Feb 2 2011, 01:47 AM
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Would those stat blocks happen to contain a halfway decent spyder? Because I've looked everywhere I could think of and didn't find one other than the slot in 'Contacts and Adventures' that didn't even list what programs he had. Okay, had I searched for 10 more fragging seconds I apparently wouldn't have needed to ask this, since I *just* found the listings in Unwired.

But I stand by vvThis Bitvv.

As a matter of fact, even if there *isn't* a spyder, having a bunch of pre-gen'd stat blocks could be fragging useful...would you be willing to share? And if so, are these blocks on the 'trix anywhere?



Edit: Because I'm apparantly an idiot.

~R~
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Neurosis
post Feb 2 2011, 09:17 PM
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Nope it's all restricted to my computer for now as it's all stuff I wrote. Tell me what you're looking for, exactly, and I'll rustle something up. The most similar thing I have. I don't have anything close to total coverage but we'll see what we can come up with.

I was going to point you to the spiders from Unwired, but it seems like you did a good job of pointing yourself. : )
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