Building Up To Code, Min/Max when my dice pool can't exceed 14 Options

[WhiskeyJohnny]

My DM has decided that if we have to make new characters, they must have no dice pools exceeding 14. So how many skills/abilities can I get up to 14? Also, would it be possible to get my shooting/melee dice pools high enough to dual wield with a 14 for each weapon?

As my current character is the group's hacker, this character needs to be able to hack, but apart from that I'm interested to see how many skills I can have maxed out under these strictures.

[Aku]

Umm, you're GM needs to be slapped, because dice pools include situational modifiers, so it's almost impossible to say "no more" than X...

[Makki]

off the top of my head: Elf with Shiva Arms, Metagenetic Agi, Muscle Toner 4, Gyromount, Gasvent 3 Assault Rifle, Tracer Rounds, Automatics 6 (spec Assault)

base: Agi 12+ Skill 6

one assault on each side: 9 + 2 spec + 3 Tracer = 14 dice for two Full Bursts...

[Doc Chase]

I think the GM means that stat+skill+mod shouldn't exceed 14. Situational modifiers aren't going to add or drop a billion dice here, so it can remain in the power level the GM wants - which is basically no emotitoys, no big foci, no sniping cascades.

[WhiskeyJohnny]

Umm, you're GM needs to be slapped, because dice pools include situational modifiers, so it's almost impossible to say "no more" than X...

Not really, because he controls the situational modifiers. He just doesn't want us to have native dice pools higher than 14.

off the top of my head: Elf with Shiva Arms, Metagenetic Agi, Muscle Toner 4, Gyromount, Gasvent 3 Assault Rifle, Tracer Rounds, Automatics 6 (spec Assault)

base: Agi 12+ Skill 6

one assault on each side: 9 + 2 spec + 3 Tracer = 14 dice for two Full Bursts...

Ok, and that works with Machine Pistols as well, right? 'Cause those are the weapons I'd like to use. Though I'm not sure how Shiva Arms would work with them...

[sabs]

that's exactly the kind of character he doesn't want you to have.

that thing is a munchkin's wet dream.

[WhiskeyJohnny]

that's exactly the kind of character he doesn't want you to have.

that thing is a munchkin's wet dream.

The kind with the Shiva arms or the kind with sufficient dice to have 14 and 14 after the split? Or the kind with as many things maxed out (at 14) as possible? 'Cause that last one is ok, he says - he'd prefer versatility to power.

[klinktastic]

I'm working up a 400 BP version of my 320 Go Ganger who has about 15 skills with about 10-12 dice. Anothe 80 BPs should get me into some as to what you're looking at.

[sabs]

The kind with the Shiva arms or the kind with sufficient dice to have 14 and 14 after the split? Or the kind with as many things maxed out (at 14) as possible? 'Cause that last one is ok, he says - he'd prefer versatility to power.

shiva arms is fine
shiva arms with 14 dice after the split so you can fire 2 full bursts at max dicepool every IP... that's super munchkin

[Doc Chase]

shiva arms is fine
shiva arms with 14 dice after the split so you can fire 2 full bursts at max dicepool every IP... that's super munchkin

Yes, I think it ignores the spirit of the restriction while joyfully poking at the letter. Not an endearing trait, that. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[Makki]

Ok, and that works with Machine Pistols as well, right? 'Cause those are the weapons I'd like to use. Though I'm not sure how Shiva Arms would work with them...

you can use 4 MPs if you want. you could get (18/4=4.5)
4+2+3=9
4+2+3=9
5+2+3=10
5+2+3=10
dice for your full bursts (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rotfl.gif)

[sabs]

Did we mention you'er a BAD BAD man, Makki?

[WhiskeyJohnny]

I'm working up a 400 BP version of my 320 Go Ganger who has about 15 skills with about 10-12 dice. Anothe 80 BPs should get me into some as to what you're looking at.

Sounds good, I'd love to take a look. I'm trying to make my BPs stretch, as you can imagine.

shiva arms is fine
shiva arms with 14 dice after the split so you can fire 2 full bursts at max dicepool every IP... that's super munchkin

Yes, I think it ignores the spirit of the restriction while joyfully poking at the letter. Not an endearing trait, that. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

you can use 4 MPs if you want. you could get (18/4=4.5)
4+2+3=9
4+2+3=9
5+2+3=10
5+2+3=10
dice for your full bursts (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rotfl.gif)

Yeah, that part is more of a thought exercise, just to see if I could do it. Though he's considering allowing it, as long as I make a solemn promise never to use a weapon singly - and he says that if I do I'll still be capped at 14 dice. And I'm only looking for two arms, I think, four MPs is a little much.

Edit: Oh, and has anybody mentioned how incredibly helpful, welcoming, and awesome this forum is? Seriously, you guys are great.

[Makki]

Did we mention you'er a BAD BAD man, Makki?

Maybe I'm Bad Santa, yet I deliver as requested (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

[klinktastic]

Here's a quick pitch:

Bod 5, Agi 5 (7), Rea 4 (5), Str 3, Cha 3, Int 5, Log 2, Will 5, Edge 3 (Total of 230 BPs stats and metatype)

Skills (150 in skills)
Athletics Group 1
Cracking Group 4
Electronics Group 1
Influence Group 2
Stealth Group 1
First Aid 1
Automatics 6
Perception 3
Gunnery (remote control) 2
Pilot (remote control) 2

Key Qualities
First Impression

Key 'Wares (using 50 BPs for resources)
Toners 2
Attention Coprocesser 3
Math CPU
PuSHeD
Encephalon 1
Enchanced Phermone Receptors 3
Tailored Phermones 2
Syntha Cardium 3

(you can decide on used standard or standard as you have money)

Key Equipment
Something with vision enhance 3
Something with hearing enhance 3
Common programs at 6
Hacking programs at 3 (except maybe exploit)

Social skills = 3 (charisma) + 2 (skill) + 2 (tailored ps) + 2 (enhanced PRs) + 2 (first impression) = 11 dice (add specialties to taste once game begins)
Hacking skills 3 (program) + 4 (skill) + 1 (pushed) + 1 (encephalon) + 2 (VR) = 11 dice (13 dice for e-warfare due to Math CPU)
Prception = 3 (skill) + 5 (int) + 3 (att copro) + 3 (vision/hearing enhance) = 14
Remote Drone Operations = 2 (skill) + 2 (spec) + 6 (command program) + 2 (VR) = 14 dice
Athletics Group = 7 (agility) + 1 (skill) + 3 (synthacardium) = 11 dice
Autos = 7 (agility) + 6 (skill) + 1 (laser sight) = 14 dice (im sure you could go smartlink, since you'll take penalities recoil and such)
Computer Group 1 (skill) + 6 (common program) + 1 (pushed) + 1 (encephalon) + 2 (VR) = 11 dice

You also have quite a bit of cash laying around so you can add reflex recorders to add a dice as you see fit. Also, replacing a foot and adding nanohive for neocortical nanities could give you another 1-3 dice for hacking. Don't forget after the game starts you can pirate or write software to get it up to rating 6.

Edit - Should give you and idea of how well rounded you can make yourself.

[Ascalaphus]

But if you have 14 dice each after splitting, doesn't that mean you have more than 14 before splitting, thus violating the restriction?

[Fauxknight]

I know I mention this a lot, but you can not fire 2 or more weapons at the same time with full bursts. The rules for using multiple weapons with the same action require you to be using simple actions only, and full bursts are explicitly a complex action.

[WhiskeyJohnny]

But if you have 14 dice each after splitting, doesn't that mean you have more than 14 before splitting, thus violating the restriction?

Yes, but he may be willing to allow me to have sufficient dice to pull it off, as I'll functionally have only 14 dice.

[WhiskeyJohnny]

Here's a quick pitch:

[ Spoiler ]

Bod 5, Agi 5 (7), Rea 4 (5), Str 3, Cha 3, Int 5, Log 2, Will 5, Edge 3 (Total of 230 BPs stats and metatype)

Skills (150 in skills)
Athletics Group 1
Cracking Group 4
Electronics Group 1
Influence Group 2
Stealth Group 1
First Aid 1
Automatics 6
Perception 3
Gunnery (remote control) 2
Pilot (remote control) 2

Key Qualities
First Impression

Key 'Wares (using 50 BPs for resources)
Toners 2
Attention Coprocesser 3
Math CPU
PuSHeD
Encephalon 1
Enchanced Phermone Receptors 3
Tailored Phermones 2
Syntha Cardium 3

(you can decide on used standard or standard as you have money)

Key Equipment
Something with vision enhance 3
Something with hearing enhance 3
Common programs at 6
Hacking programs at 3 (except maybe exploit)

Social skills = 3 (charisma) + 2 (skill) + 2 (tailored ps) + 2 (enhanced PRs) + 2 (first impression) = 11 dice (add specialties to taste once game begins)
Hacking skills 3 (program) + 4 (skill) + 1 (pushed) + 1 (encephalon) + 2 (VR) = 11 dice (13 dice for e-warfare due to Math CPU)
Prception = 3 (skill) + 5 (int) + 3 (att copro) + 3 (vision/hearing enhance) = 14
Remote Drone Operations = 2 (skill) + 2 (spec) + 6 (command program) + 2 (VR) = 14 dice
Athletics Group = 7 (agility) + 1 (skill) + 3 (synthacardium) = 11 dice
Autos = 7 (agility) + 6 (skill) + 1 (laser sight) = 14 dice (im sure you could go smartlink, since you'll take penalities recoil and such)
Computer Group 1 (skill) + 6 (common program) + 1 (pushed) + 1 (encephalon) + 2 (VR) = 11 dice

You also have quite a bit of cash laying around so you can add reflex recorders to add a dice as you see fit. Also, replacing a foot and adding nanohive for neocortical nanities could give you another 1-3 dice for hacking. Don't forget after the game starts you can pirate or write software to get it up to rating 6.

Edit - Should give you and idea of how well rounded you can make yourself.

Excellent, thanks. I presume you're an Ork?

[klinktastic]

Ah yep, sorry Ork it is. I did 50 BPs in resources and touched about 120k of them. I'd recommend using combat drugs (Cram) for meat IPs since you can go Hot Sim VR for 4 IPs in Matrix while hacking/remote controlling stuff. However, you should have essense and cash for wire reflexes 2. You end up saving a lot of cash with rating 3 hacking software, which you can plug back in for drones, weapons, and more 'wares. Also, you're good a being a face (tho light on contacts), you can do other leg work like data search, you can fit into any situation. Need fire support, ok, I'll sit in the van and fly some drones in and hack. Oh, you need me to be on site to hack, ok, I'm pretty durable, decent dodge pool, and auto's pool. So you have things to do in ever stage of the 'run, and you're versatile so you don't have to stick to the same plan every mission.

[klinktastic]

Oh yeah, to see my character in action check him out:

IC Thread

OOC Thread

Had to use social skills a lot, and they've paid off. Lots of data searches, they've been successful. Wheelman, check. Spoofing a car to disrupt some bad guys, check. Now I just need to bash someone in the head with my stun baton and I'll be happy.

[Jhaiisiin]

Could always brain the next random passerby just to get your kicks. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[WhiskeyJohnny]

Ah yep, sorry Ork it is. I did 50 BPs in resources and touched about 120k of them. I'd recommend using combat drugs (Cram) for meat IPs since you can go Hot Sim VR for 4 IPs in Matrix while hacking/remote controlling stuff. However, you should have essense and cash for wire reflexes 2. You end up saving a lot of cash with rating 3 hacking software, which you can plug back in for drones, weapons, and more 'wares. Also, you're good a being a face (tho light on contacts), you can do other leg work like data search, you can fit into any situation. Need fire support, ok, I'll sit in the van and fly some drones in and hack. Oh, you need me to be on site to hack, ok, I'm pretty durable, decent dodge pool, and auto's pool. So you have things to do in ever stage of the 'run, and you're versatile so you don't have to stick to the same plan every mission.

Yeah, this looks similar to what I'm trying to do. I'm going to try and re-work this build a little, to focus less on drones and to be an Adept, but this seems like a good start.

[klinktastic]

Yeah, this looks similar to what I'm trying to do. I'm going to try and re-work this build a little, to focus less on drones and to be an Adept, but this seems like a good start.

You can probably get more outta being mundane than an adept. Adepts are better at specializing, but mundane is probably better for being a generalist. And I know the drones aren't sexy, but you can equip them with heavy weapons down to light weapons with gunnery. It gives you a certain flexability. With Gunnery 2 and Pilot 2 plus specializations it costs you 20 BPs to have 12 dice with drones (skill 2, spec 2, command 6, and VR 2). Its a signficantly small investment for potentially huge rewards.

[Mäx]

You can probably get more outta being mundane than an adept. Adepts are better at specializing, but mundane is probably better for being a generalist.

That's debatable, you can after all get 4 IP:s by going the adept route when you don't need those power points for super specializing.