Sins of a Solar Empire, Don't Buy Options

[Sixgun_Sage]

I'm a big fan of space RTS games, which is sad because there are so few good ones, bought Sins in the hopes it would provide some entertainment, it did for the first few hours. That is when I started to get worried, the lack of a real campaign mode should have been a warning.... The game has a horrible AI, enemy ships jump in and out of systems pretty much at random and unless commanded to all ships seem to spread out their fire. Needless to say this makes actual strategic defense problematic. What is even worse is while you can pay to have pirates raid enemy cultures they raid you as well and at times this leads to something that can only be termed spam raiding by the computer player. The system of searching planets you colonize for artifacts had me interested from the get go but after using it extensively in every map I've played I can honestly say it isn't worth it, I've never gotten more than 2 artifacts and considering the cost I would have been better off just dumping the resources in to researching tech. That isn't to say the game is completely without merits, the three civilizations are a small sampling but are atleast well balanced and fun to play, the variety of research paths you can take is fun and the fact you can level up your cap ships and choose how they advance along their own talents is pretty cool, but over all the end product feels like some game design student's project, and not for finals. There is a lot of potential but it just fails to execute on too many points.

[Karoline]

I got this game back before it even came out (through legal means). It was a game I played for a couple hours maybe, then simply never got around to playing again. Not sure if it was that the game just didn't grab me or something else came along or I was simply too busy. If you're looking for a good space RTS I highly suggest checking out AI War and preparing to be rocked (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Tanegar]

Enemy ship movement isn't random at all. You have to explore the map in order to see the pattern, but it is there. Pirates, for example, will always follow the shortest route from their base to the nearest world belonging to their target, while enemy empires tend to target your most highly developed worlds. Knowing this, it becomes possible to intercept pirate fleets before they reach you. Perhaps you could clarify what you mean by "spam raiding;" I have observed no such phenomenon. As to pirates raiding your worlds, why shouldn't they? They are pirates, after all.

[Iduno]

From what I remember, the game had an interesting start to a story (for an RTS, anyway) in the intro, then never used it again. Everything felt less interesting than it should have been for some reason. After reading reviews, I was sure I would like the game, and I wanted to. After playing a few matches and getting to mostly understand what I was doing, I realized I had no interest. You may be right that part of the problem was all of the interesting choices were so sub-optimal that you usually have to ignore them.

[Yerameyahu]

I've heard that's it's really interesting and difficult, though with a couple flaws.

[Stahlseele]

i tried.
one hour.
then i decided that i would just not bother again . .
too difficult/complicated for me <.<

[Sixgun_Sage]

By spam raiding, Tanegar, I mean waves after waves of cheap units by both the enemy empire and piurates that constitutes a slow grind on my own military, most annoying because in the breakdown of resources after matches I can't make the math work on how the enemy could afford what they had used... As to unit movements I'm just not seeing what you claim with enemy ships, they have, in point of fact never attacked my most highly developed worlds as doing so would have made me giggle like a manic jackass and I don't recall doing so, they do however jump in to a system and then jump right back out.


I'll check that out, Karoline, at this rate though I'm considering dusting off one of my old machines and running a few classics....

[Sixgun_Sage]

From what I remember, the game had an interesting start to a story (for an RTS, anyway) in the intro, then never used it again. Everything felt less interesting than it should have been for some reason. After reading reviews, I was sure I would like the game, and I wanted to. After playing a few matches and getting to mostly understand what I was doing, I realized I had no interest. You may be right that part of the problem was all of the interesting choices were so sub-optimal that you usually have to ignore them.

It really is frustrating how ineffective some of the stuff they included is, when they could have made the game a real standout. The sad bit is I keep reinstalling it hoping to prove myself wrong....

[Thanee]

A friend of mine really likes games like this (though his all time favorite would be the venerable Master of Orion II).

He played this for dozens if not hundreds of hours. Can't be all bad. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Bye
Thanee

[Karoline]

I'll check that out, Karoline, at this rate though I'm considering dusting off one of my old machines and running a few classics....

I should prepare you before you say I gave bad advice though. At the 'normal' level the AI isn't particularly impressive, but there is a cutoff point at 7 skill I think it is for the AI where it suddenly starts using good tactics.

[Yerameyahu]

Man, I wish they'd've made Master of Orion III (the real version, not that awful thing they published). (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif)

[Stahlseele]

Ah, i just remembered the reason why i initially bought this game:
Because it comes without copy protection and the makers told the world about it.
And i like to support such things.

[GrepZen]

There are two expansions to Sins: One that adds more diplomatic options + ships & stuff; the second adds defense platforms & "death stars". If you don't like what you see hit the Stardock Sins page and download some of the player created patches...Stargate, B5, SW, ST, mods & nerfs of equipment, etc. The company also put out a map generator and full documentation on how to mod the game. There is no campaign feture as it was designed for online tourney & LAN play. The single player stuff is a bit weak but, the mods make up for it. SINS2 is in the works as is a third expansion as Stardock is very receptive to customer comments.

[Sixgun_Sage]

I should prepare you before you say I gave bad advice though. At the 'normal' level the AI isn't particularly impressive, but there is a cutoff point at 7 skill I think it is for the AI where it suddenly starts using good tactics.

Fine by me, I like AI that can push me through use of actual tactics, not the seemingly random movements I've seen (yes this has been addressed, just saying from my own observations...) that Sins' opposition uses.

[Karoline]

Yeah, the AI will use feints and such, and thanks to the fact that you're limited in the number of each type of building and ship you can build, you'll have to pay careful attention to stuff like that. When you first start out you'll be able to build a bunch of turrets at each wormhole, but as you go on you'll be required to slowly stretch your defenses thinner and thinner, while the whole time the AI is getting more and more aggressive. You'll be required to raid AI planets for knowledge to research new ships and turrets, not just because they're better, but also because it'll increase the total number you can have.

And then there is the challenge of capturing and keeping things like advanced production facilities and so on.

As I said though, lower level AI doesn't seem that amazing, but picks up at that particular cutoff point.

[CanadianWolverin...]

I played the heck out of this game in single player and I really think that advising others "Do not buy" is not giving this a fair shake at all. I've loved Galactic Civilizations, Masters of Orion II, Star Craft, Freelancer, and Homeworld - games which only have a passing similarity to Sins of a Solar Empire.

And I suck at the multiplayer, by orders of magnitude. I just really suck at micromanaging and turtle + tech too much when I need to be scouting and making a grab for the good, defensible planets while leveling up my capital ships.

Capital ships is what someone was nice enough to teach me in a multiplayer game where most of the action is, their special abilities used at the right time after a bit of leveling up can make or break your chances for winning.

But like any multiplayer centric games, they are best played with friends and sadly my online acquaintances that I knew were fine folks to play with just for the fun to be had mistakes and successes alike had the game have already moved on to new games. Oh well, that happens when you are bargain hunter instead of picking stuff up on release day. And yet I have still enjoyed it and its expansions ... I have found it is a game best treated when playing like as if it is a themed Risk board game, not unlike when I have played Civilizations - have a nice spot in the house you know some kid won't knock/steal the pieces off and play it in sessions. Unless you are like me who gets lost in the tasks/entertainment they are focused on, in which case before you know it more than a few hours will have passed by as you develop your space warfare campaigns that stretch across the stars.

And it wouldn't surprise me in the least to find there are some good mods for this game, I thought I remember someone working on putting all the star wars ships in it or something to that effect. Or was that Freelancer or Homeworld? *shrug*

[klinktastic]

Another good 4X game/series is Space Empires...particularly Space Empires V. Not as good as Masters of Orion II, but still interesting none the less.

[GrepZen]

And it wouldn't surprise me in the least to find there are some good mods for this game, I thought I remember someone working on putting all the star wars ships in it or something to that effect. Or was that Freelancer or Homeworld? *shrug*

I just picked it back up and bought the expansions...loving it. Its a time waste for sure but a fun one. Can't wait for the next expansion or a v.2 that fixes the memory cap. You can download free community mods from the Stardock website. Those include race additions, maps, NERFS, and theme changes (BGS, B5, SG1, SW, etc). The Sins community is probably one of the best out there with tons of developer support by Ironclad & Stardock. Id say it was a close second to NWN1.

[Hocus Pocus]

i disagee. sins of a solar empire is definately worth the moolah in my humble and generally wrong opintion. i really liked it.

[Socinus]

It was...ok.

The big problem I had was it was just too easy in some instances but maddeningly difficult in others.

My usual tactic was advancing quickly to claim a couple of chokehold systems and then defending them with almost everything I had. Once I was good and built up, I'd advance out and crush anything in my way.

The only time that failed is when I played against the aliens that didnt need those warp lanes, then it just became frustrating because they'd pop out of nowhere and I couldn't scramble defenses fast enough.