Unarmed Combat, Just making sure I'm reading this right Options

[Brazilian_Shinob...]

Also, having a GM who allows such things as augmented adepted. The book is quite clear that GM's should be careful about allowing adepts with augmentations.

[Ascalaphus]

Also, having a GM who allows such things as augmented adepted. The book is quite clear that GM's should be careful about allowing adepts with augmentations.

Could you give me a page reference for that? I'm curious what it has to say about it.

[Brazilian_Shinob...]

Just read the description about the Adept quality.

Though this quality is inexpensive, gamemasters should be careful not to allow it to be abused. It should only be taken for characters that are intended to be played as adepts.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Just read the description about the Adept quality.

Which does not preclude any augmentations. After all, even Twist was Augmented...
All the text means is that the character should be interested in exploring his magical nature.

[Brazilian_Shinob...]

Which does not preclude any augmentations. After all, even Twist was Augmented...
All the text means is that the character should be interested in exploring his magical nature.

And putting augmentations that reduce essence that reduces Magic is exploring his magical nature?
As I said, it depends on how the GM reads it.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

And putting augmentations that reduce essence that reduces Magic is exploring his magical nature?
As I said, it depends on how the GM reads it.

Nothing in the rules Requires you to stay pure as a Magically awakened Character... Nothing... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)
If you Initiate, you are exploring your nature...
If you raise your magic, you are exploring your nature...
If you pursue magically active skills, you are exploring your nature...

Pretty Simple Concept, really...

[Mardrax]

Really, if you have enough Magic to have any left after the highest BDA or Bone Lacing, you have explored your magical nature. If not, you burn out.

[Brazilian_Shinob...]

Bone density is 0.3 essence per rating. If you wish, you lose 2 points of Magic and put BDA 4 and suprathyroid gland, gaining +4 dice do absorb damage +3 points of physical damage on unarmed attacks and +1 to all physical abilities. Just gaining 4 points of armor (that can be reduced with AP) costs 2 power points for an Adept. Is it expensive to pull this off? Sure, but it is completely doable and an ugly can of worms on the hands of the right (wrong?) player.

[Mardrax]

*shrug* it's one way of doing things. And I'd rather have someone going all tank on me, than some of the more powerful options.
In any case, it's nothing troubling at all. Shadowrun is the game where man meets magic meets machine. A cybered up adept fulfills this theme nicely.

[Ascalaphus]

I personally like the idea of augmented adepts. It's the kind of "ugly" choice where you sacrifice part of your higher, magical self for power - it makes you a bit dirty. To Awakened characters, augmentation is even more "dehumanizing" or at least more "de-selfizing" than for mundanes. It's something to angst about.

[Glyph]

That line (in the rules) is idiotic. How can someone taking one of those qualities and not "exploring" it really be abusive? If you are not augmented up or awakened, you are second-rate. If you spend 5 points and get that Magic rating of 1, you can't get any 'ware without losing that point. So in a game of people with earthshaking powers, you are basically a mundane twit with a knack. Whoopee. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sarcastic.gif)

On the other hand, becoming an adept and enhancing yourself with augmentation is clearly allowed - otherwise, you wouldn't even need rules for Essence loss (since no awakened character would ever take 'ware). It's still balanced, though. You can become brutally hyper-specialized, but you have to buy up your Magic, then lose those points to the 'ware, and pay the cost for the 'ware as well. Sure, some very effective combos can be made, but at the expense of some versatility.

[Semerkhet]

And putting augmentations that reduce essence that reduces Magic is exploring his magical nature?
As I said, it depends on how the GM reads it.

A major NPC in the DotA series is a physad with a couple Essence points worth of augmentations. That would seem to indicate that augmented adepts are RAI as far as the current developer and authors are concerned.

[Brazilian_Shinob...]

And considering that the writers, editors and designers of the core book are not the same handling DotA now, I wouldn't ay it is RAI, I would just say they don't care about the last sentence on the description of the Adept quality.

[WyldKnight]

And considering there is not a single rule in the book that says "Awakened cannot use implants" I would say you're reading way way too much into it. I've never played an adept without some ware. Muscle toner, maybe cerebral booster if he is a combat medic or a hacker adept, and whatever else I can get my hands on without breaking the bank.

If your adept is driven by spirituality (shamanic type) then yes this would be against your characters view and justifying it would be hard. On the other hand if your adept is a combat pragmatist or simply logical then it makes perfect sense. "Why shouldn't I do this? Do you realize it could take me months to get through magic what technology can offer me now? I'm sorry, but I would like to survive long enough to explore my power and not let some other guys definition of magic make me less effective."

[Semerkhet]

And considering that the writers, editors and designers of the core book are not the same handling DotA now, I wouldn't ay it is RAI, I would just say they don't care about the last sentence on the description of the Adept quality.

If the current authors and developer are not the arbiters of RAI then we should stop using that term as a basis for argument. There is RAW and there are a multitude of house rules. It would seem that by your estimation the views of the current authors and developer are in the house rule category.

[Brazilian_Shinob...]

All I'm sayin is: the book says that the Adept quality has room for abuse if not used the way it was supposed to*.

Given the fact that the difference between an adept and a magician is that magician can cast spells and adepts use their magic to enhance their body in a way similar to augmentations, I would say that yes, using adept power with augmentations give room to abuse.

*the way it was supposed to is completely dependent on the view of each player

[Semerkhet]

All I'm sayin is: the book says that the Adept quality has room for abuse if not used the way it was supposed to*.

Given the fact that the difference between an adept and a magician is that magician can cast spells and adepts use their magic to enhance their body in a way similar to augmentations, I would say that yes, using adept power with augmentations give room to abuse.

*the way it was supposed to is completely dependent on the view of each player

I mostly agree with you. It is vulnerable to abuse, but then so are a few dozen other rules and subsystems in Shadowrun. That's why I dislike, in general, arguments that rely on RAW or RAI. Shadowrun is rife with abuse potential, as the many "lulz, look how broken this character is..." topics over the months attest.

One of the ways I think Dumpshock is useful is as a means to sound out potential house rules. Even then, the advice one gets must be measured against what does and doesn't work for a particular group. In this particular case, the only sound advice that can be given is "be careful."