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> Unarmed Combat and Martial Arts, A question for the SR3 sourcebook.
theartthief
post Mar 17 2004, 05:43 AM
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Ok, first off, I have tried to do my homework and search the forum for the information that I am looking for with no success. Please help:

I only have SR3 (I had SR2 and SRC in college - where did I put those??) so I need some clarification.

If a person takes a specialization of unarmed combat with only the sourcebook as a reference is there really anything speacial that happens to them? I have looked and there are no drawbacks to having a specialization in "hair pulling" as opposed to "pressure points" or "wrestling" (the greco-roman variety). However, common sense - I realize that you can't always use that in SR mechanics - dictates that these arts would be very different in actual combat.

For example:

Jane Smith, mundane human female, is leaving her self defense class when she is attacked (an attempted mugging) by Vixon, a female human ganger.

Stats of importance:

Jane: B=3, S=3, R=3, Unarmed combat=3

Vixon: B=4, S=3, R=3, Unarmed combat=2 (4) [hair pulling]

Who would win this fight? What if Jane is bald? I noticed in my search that martial arts and manuevers are mentioned - where?

Anyway, any help would be greatly appreciated.

- theartthief
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mfb
post Mar 17 2004, 06:06 AM
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as of SR3, Vixon would probably win--the GM would have to determine what kind of damage you can do by pulling hair, but the higher specialization and body means Vixon has the upper hand.

as of Cannon Companion, however, there are no more unarmed combat specializations. instead, each unarmed style is a unique skill that offers a range of maneuvers you can pick up, advantages, and disadvantages.
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Shockwave_IIc
post Mar 17 2004, 06:09 AM
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And unless your using Becks as your Character Gen system, any martial art above 4 with the exeption of brawling cost a fortune skill point wise.....
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mfb
post Mar 17 2004, 06:19 AM
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eh? why? it's only an average of 1 karma more than raising any other skill.
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Glyph
post Mar 17 2004, 07:12 AM
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Maneuvers are dirt cheap after char-gen, costing only 2 Karma points each. Unfortunately, for starting out with them, they cost 2 build points each, and for every martial art except brawling, you have to buy maneuvers in order to improve past a certain level. So if you want to play a really tough martial artist, you wind up paying 12 points for a martial art and 3 maneuvers, instead of just spending 6 points for a skill.
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mfb
post Mar 17 2004, 07:19 AM
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ahh. i was thinking of post-chargen, since i'm too dumb to read the post i was responding to.
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toturi
post Mar 17 2004, 10:09 AM
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QUOTE (Glyph)
Maneuvers are dirt cheap after char-gen, costing only 2 Karma points each. Unfortunately, for starting out with them, they cost 2 build points each, and for every martial art except brawling, you have to buy maneuvers in order to improve past a certain level. So if you want to play a really tough martial artist, you wind up paying 12 points for a martial art and 3 maneuvers, instead of just spending 6 points for a skill.

Of course there's a way around that. And it is Canon even.
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Xirces
post Mar 17 2004, 11:20 AM
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QUOTE (toturi)
QUOTE (Glyph @ Mar 17 2004, 03:12 PM)
Maneuvers are dirt cheap after char-gen, costing only 2 Karma points each.  Unfortunately, for starting out with them, they cost 2 build points each, and for every martial art except brawling, you have to buy maneuvers in order to improve past a certain level.  So if you want to play a really tough martial artist, you wind up paying 12 points for a martial art and 3 maneuvers, instead of just spending 6 points for a skill.

Of course there's a way around that. And it is Canon even.

The only thing I can think of is that the examples in CC of converting the SR3 archtypes don't say anything about reducing available skill points in order to select maneuvers. I think in a non-karma build system it's the only fair way to do it (of course, anyone with Brawling also gets the same bonus as well).

What rules do people actually use for this?
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toturi
post Mar 17 2004, 11:53 AM
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Converting the SR3 characters can net you as many as 3 free maneuvers. That is how I interpreted that section of the CC.
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TheScamp
post Mar 17 2004, 01:47 PM
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QUOTE
as of SR3, Vixon would probably win--the GM would have to determine what kind of damage you can do by pulling hair, but the higher specialization and body means Vixon has the upper hand.

Depending on the situation, but yeah it is a GM call. For example, if you specialized in kicking and are trying to fight in knee-deep water, you're going to have some problems, just as hair-pulling's going to have difficulties with a buzz cut. I'd probably give situational target modifiers if they wanted to use the specialization or they could just fall back on the base skill.
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