 Elves, Mortal and Immortal, Confused. |
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 Mar 17 2004, 05:45 AM
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#1
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Target  Group: Members Posts: 94 Joined: 14-March 04 Member No.: 6,154  |
Okay...maybe someone who's more well-read in Shadowrun than I am can clarify this for me. I seem to remember the SR2 and SR3 rulebooks mentioning that elves can live much longer than humans, but not mentioning just how much. Anywhere they clarify?
Also - what's with immortal elves in Shadowrun? I seem to remember reading one novel (Worlds without End, I think it was called) in which immortal elves with ties to Earthdawn (Third or Fourth Age, whatever it is) basically ran the world, along with dragons. Is this canon, or just the novelist's whim? I remember some modules featuring Harlequin, but never bought or played them. |
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Mar 17 2004, 05:52 AM
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#2
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Beetle Eater Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 4,797 Joined: 3-June 02 From: Oblivion City Member No.: 2,826 |
Too much... 500 years expected age of Elves, clarified in Tir Tairngire. Immortal elves are canon...
Look around here for awhile Specifically, here. |
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Mar 17 2004, 05:58 AM
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#3
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Target Group: Members Posts: 94 Joined: 14-March 04 Member No.: 6,154 |
Ugh, both of those answers make me sad. :( But thanks for providing them, and the links.
500 years is ridiculous. Maybe for special spike baby elves, or something. But for your average elf working as a clerk at Nukit Burger? Senseless. Mayhap a house rule is in order for my games... It bothers me a lot that immortal elves and dragons basically run the damn world, for various and sundry reasons - such as the fact that it makes the rest of metahumanity kinda marginal. Anyone else feel this way? Or perhaps disagree? |
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Mar 17 2004, 06:00 AM
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#4
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Traumatizing players since 1992 Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,282 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Las Vegas, NV Member No.: 220 |
Immortal elves don't rule the world with dragons, they do each rule some little parts of it though.
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Mar 17 2004, 06:10 AM
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#5
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Beetle Eater Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 4,797 Joined: 3-June 02 From: Oblivion City Member No.: 2,826 |
Wouldn't that just suck? I imagine elves will have a high rate of suicide at around a hundred. And not every elf knows or believes it.
Even if you eliminated all the IE's and Dragons, the corps would just take the same place (they do already). Metahumanity has been reduced to consumers... pretty much what we call civilization. There are more humans in places of than immortals, by head count. But even they are the few elite that rule the huddled masses. Welcome to the Sixth World, same as the Third World. |
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Mar 17 2004, 06:11 AM
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#6
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Target Group: Members Posts: 94 Joined: 14-March 04 Member No.: 6,154 |
Yeah, true for the most part. The suicide rate thing makes sense, too. Though it seems as though the designers made the decision to gives normal elves those 500-year life spans without giving much thought to the logistics of it all...
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Mar 17 2004, 06:14 AM
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#7
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
check out Ancient History's site. it's got some basic info on that subject and others related.
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Mar 17 2004, 06:15 AM
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#8
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Beetle Eater Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 4,797 Joined: 3-June 02 From: Oblivion City Member No.: 2,826 |
You mean that elves can only have babies every nine years? Or something else? The elf grows at normal rate until 25 when aging slows and "stops" around 30.
[edit]@MFB :P |
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Mar 17 2004, 06:22 AM
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#9
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Target Group: Members Posts: 94 Joined: 14-March 04 Member No.: 6,154 |
That'd be part of it. Does it mention the Tirs practicing any kind of state-run euthanasia on old or unfit elves? Are there old/unfit elves, since aging "stops" at 30? Hrmm... Or perhaps a legal limit on how often folks can procreate? They'd have a serious population problem on their hands after a century or so without some sort of control. |
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Mar 17 2004, 06:28 AM
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#10
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
well, there are certainly unfit elves--they don't have genes for perfect health, just long life. but, no, all (non-spike baby) elves in SR are, max, 54 years old.
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Mar 17 2004, 06:44 AM
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#11
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Beetle Eater Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 4,797 Joined: 3-June 02 From: Oblivion City Member No.: 2,826 |
Not yet and yes they do. Tir seriously promotes homoracial relations and elven females are limited in ovary numbers just like all mammals. While not mentioned, I think that will limit birth rates, in a way. But for now they want people. Tir is seriously under populated compared to, say, France. Sure, you might worry about the population a century from now, but they only make up ~5% of the world population at the moment. Orks breed in litters of 4 or more every nine months. Tir is much more worried about keeping Ork infant mortality high than Elven. |
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Mar 17 2004, 09:42 AM
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#12
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Target Group: Members Posts: 41 Joined: 23-February 04 From: Michigan Member No.: 6,098 |
I think IE's are like any other plot device, a tool in the tool box to be used when it suits you. I think there are intresting and subtle ways to use them at the peripherals of a game-I prefer not to use them directly.
Also as an aside after a hundred years if you're still flippin' soy at Nukit, then Suicide is probably a favor. |
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Mar 17 2004, 10:25 AM
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#13
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 777 Joined: 18-February 03 Member No.: 4,110 |
:D |
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Mar 17 2004, 11:32 AM
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#14
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,428 Joined: 9-June 02 Member No.: 2,860 |
Think of it this way: it's not a far future thing to suppose that once... a) genetic therapy works fairly well on humans b) genes controlling the aging mechanism are IDd ...that every person, from burger flippers to ditch diggers to CEOs will have 500-year lifespans. Such immortality might not fit in SR, but I don't see why you should begrudge burger flipping elves their long lives. I mean, it's one thing to note that low lifestyles tend to influence life spans (and you know all those fake butter fumes and deep frier explosions will cull a lot of minimum wage elves), but another to imply that because they're not high class elves, they should not have long lives. As for IEs and Dragons controlling the world, it's more like they're in positions of influence, and they're subject to attrition and mortal competition. |
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Mar 17 2004, 12:02 PM
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#15
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,965 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Edinburgh, Scotland Member No.: 2,032 |
"I was flipping burgers when your Father's Father's Father's Father's Father was in daipers!"
"Tod's Tir - Exclusive Elven-only Trailer-Park" Dammn NEEDs... |
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Mar 17 2004, 01:06 PM
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#16
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 6,748 Joined: 5-July 02 Member No.: 2,935 |
Most non-Spike Baby elves will live about 400 years, barring accident, violence or disease (which they are all susceptible to). It's a rare elf that lives for 500 years or more.
Anyways, being an elf sucks. Pregnancy lasts something like 360 days with an increased chance for twins. Who wants to be pregnant for an entire year? [ Spoiler ]
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Mar 17 2004, 04:05 PM
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#17
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,428 Joined: 9-June 02 Member No.: 2,860 |
Spoiling the spoiler... Vegetarianism isn't necessarily good enough. Some plants are very fatty, and even "good" fats add up after a while. I'd expect all but the healthiest folks to have heart troubles after 150-200 years if they had arterial plaque build up like humans. But What Can Mutant Italians Teach Us? Any mammal that has a long life is going to have long-term "maintenance" traits like that, and IEs will need something to cover brain cell loss and accumulating liver damage. I bet those IEs just kept chugging their fine elvish wine over the centuries - that'll add up, too. |
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Mar 17 2004, 04:51 PM
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#18
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,066 Joined: 5-February 03 Member No.: 4,017 |
Hmmm... maybe their immunity to alcahol, pathogens, and the common effects of aging comes into play here. Based on some non-rules text, the IE immunity to alcahol is optional and immediately removes all effects. This allows them to get smashed and then be sober in a few moments when they see the need. When you throw in that they are easier to heal than regular elves and most have had the time to learn a whole lot of magic, their maintenance could be entirely self-managed. |
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Mar 17 2004, 04:58 PM
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#19
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Traumatizing players since 1992 Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,282 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Las Vegas, NV Member No.: 220 |
A whole lot of magic in the sense that the ocean has some water in it.... :D
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Mar 17 2004, 05:43 PM
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#20
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 611 Joined: 21-October 03 From: Yorkshire Toxic Zone Member No.: 5,752 |
Could easily be a spell effect. They're powerful enough and experienced enough to mask it completely to mundanes (read: mere mortals, rather than non-magic folk) and not be noticed casting it. They might do this merely to preserve their mystique, making it look like they can just shrug off the effects. Just a theory. |
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Mar 17 2004, 06:00 PM
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#21
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,066 Joined: 5-February 03 Member No.: 4,017 |
I was referring to Harlequin when he was in a troubling discussion with an even more magically significant individual (it includes the second time that Harlequin completely failed to banish this individual). I don't think that instance was just to show off to the mortals.
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Mar 17 2004, 07:09 PM
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#22
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 611 Joined: 21-October 03 From: Yorkshire Toxic Zone Member No.: 5,752 |
fair enough, haven't read that one.
SR novels are really hard to get hold of in the shops, and I don't fancy paying postage on them from the states! If its in Harlequin, we're playing it at the moment, so I haven't read it. |
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 Mar 17 2004, 08:37 PM
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#23
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 313 Joined: 5-March 04 From: UK Member No.: 6,125 |
Tell me about it! Shadowrun in general seems to be an underground thing. I mean, I did not even know 3rd ed was being reprinted until I checked the SR website. And I run a roleplay shop! Our supplier does have Shadowrun but it is not on the 'official' lists, so I didn't realise they had any until last week. (though they still have some of the OLD stuff, under the counter, if you know the secret handshake...) |
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Mar 17 2004, 08:47 PM
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#24
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 293 Joined: 27-January 03 From: Kentucky, USA Member No.: 3,958 |
The scene in question is the opening fluff to Harlequin's Back.
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Mar 17 2004, 08:58 PM
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#25
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 194 Joined: 24-January 04 Member No.: 6,013 |
Personally, I don't think 500 years is all that extreme as far as Elven life spans are concerned. Tolkien's were immortal for all intense purposes, and in D&D your average High Elf has an average life span of about 1,500 years. Makes Shadowrun Elves look down right short lived compared to them.
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