Running modifier:Athletics, dodge, melee, does it apply to all? Options

[Suriyel]

Alright, my question is this, does the running modifier actually 'apply to any tests while running' (SR3 pg 108)?

For example, the use of athletics(running) as a complex action to increase the running distance has a TN 4. Is it actually TN 8 or a TN 0 + 4 for running?

Then there is also the 'Athletics and Dodging' from CC (pg 97). The base is TN 4, and in the example, they do not mention whether the character is technically 'moving' or not and only include the +1 modifier for her light wound. The text makes it sound as if she would be running ("makes a break for the door"). Would the TN (for a character with no other modifiers) be 4 or 8 to use the athletic dodging while running?

And finally, melee. The ranged combat tables have explicit entries for the attacker moving (both running and walking), while the melee table (Sixth printing SR3, FASA) has no entries for either walking or running. Does walking/running affect melee TN's?

I tried a few searches, getting mostly errors on combinations of keywords, and then just a "few" pages returned for 'running', so if this has been brought up before, please excuse my ignorance on the matter.

For a bit of background on this question, having finally gotten to play a runner in what was initially a one shot and then continued on, I had a melee centric adept with not much to do with ranged combat and only lowly adrenaline surge for anything to boost initiative. Continuing to play him has pointed out survival will very much depend on the mastery of modifiers, ie making life difficult for those trying to geek him at range while giving him a chance to get up close and personal. Any answers would be very appreciated.

[mfb]

the text on 108 should probably be erratta'd to "any tests except melee, dodging, and athletics". no, you don't take the running TN mod to any of these tests.

[Shockwave_IIc]

Granted it doesn't quite read like that but the +4 Tn's is for a "combat action" (ie. firing a pistol) while running, i read it this way as it's under the rules for combat. Because otherwise if taking it to the letter, when out of combat you don't get the plus +4 Tn's which would be silly.

Also bare in mind that, that is Running NOT "Sprinting" (which is a complex action on it's own).

As for the "Dodge Action" as i understand it there's is nothing cannon that tells you how far you can move while performing it (a full run seems a little much yet a walk is not enough, perhaps quickness x2 meters? (dwarfs being x1.5? )).

[RedmondLarry]

There are many modifiers that affect Melee Combat that aren't in the Melee Combat table, so just because movement isn't listed there doesn't mean it's not a modifier to Melee. The section on movement clearly indicates that, as a rule, movement modifiers affect all success tests.

My rule-lawyer side says it is clearly Canon that movement modifiers apply to all success tests, and that a movement rate (Walk or Run) applies to the Turn, and that starting to Run during a Combat Turn is allowed by the book if you have been stationary during the Turn so far but not if you've been Walking this Turn.

My practical side says I shouldn't apply the Running modifier to a Reaction test to increase movement speed. And I allow Running to start in the middle of a Turn even if the character has walked previously. And I stop applying the Running modifier once the character has moved at a lower rate. And I don't apply the movement modifiers when a character takes Deadly damage and rolls Body to avoid losing limbs and organs.

But I do apply the movement modifier to actions taken the same Combat Phase that movement starts, such as hitting someone with a Sword and running away in the same Combat Phase.

[spotlite]

Good question!

I think it does apply - but I think you need to be careful when you apply it. If someone is legging it as fast as they can and try to shoot - course you apply it. If someone is running past someone and tries to get a swipe in as they go, then yeah, I'd definately apply it. If someone runs into combat but stops to actually fight (say to rescue an outnumbered comrade), then I'd say not - canon FAQ on changing movement rates mid-turn notwithstanding.

I wouldn't apply a modifier to using athletics to increase movement rate either once they've started, though I'd apply a +2 if they've already done it once and are trying to pick up more speed, as per the usual rules about re-trying something. That's what athletics is for and it just doesn't make sense to apply the modifier in those circumstances. If you apply the modifier, you'd hardly get any successes if you were even an olympic level athelete. It just wouldn't make sense that if you started off by using your athletics to run as fast as you could in the first place, that suddenly you couldn't get anywhere near as fast because you're already moving and weren't really trying.

I'd say apply it - but only when its truly appropriate. Which I concede is purely a judgement call - but then, what isn't?

[Suriyel]

(@OurTeam:

The thing is, at least as my book has it, it is not just success tests, it says "any tests", so open, success, success contest, etc. (ie, good luck on that running jump...))

My issue with running applying to melee is that unlike ranged, where you can generally just 'miss', melee is opposed and can be turned back on you, so that +4 to your TN (or even the +1 from walking) can make your life miserable and brief. Especially on an intercept while running, which means the person you are trying to run past has the effect of having reach 4 on top of whatever they already have. So a human trying to run past a troll would be up against TN 9 for the combat skill portion of the full defense check. Sure the dodge portion isn't touched (as dodge lists exactly what modifiers apply to it), and that eats combat pool.

Also, the melee tables do not have a listing for target running as a modifier, so the running person is always at a complete disadvantage. There is no modifier for a stationary target as well.

Aside from the Superior Position modifier, there isn't any movement related modifiers listed for melee. Superior Position modifier includes terrain modifiers ("the character is standing on stable ground while the opponent is not or if the opponent is in a restricted position and the character is not"), so if movement modifiers apply as well, and the running character is on difficult terrain, the runner will have tn 4 + 6 = 10 vs an opponent with TN 4 -1 = 3 before any other modifiers. Even someone highly skilled will have trouble dealing with TN 10 vs TN 3. The movement modifiers just seem to swing the opposed TN's too much.

Someone defaulting to Str 3 (TN 7=TN 6) with the above situation (having Superior Position) would have a better chance than someone with skill 6, ie 3 dice at TN 7 vs 6 dice at TN 10.