War, HUH! What the hell's it good for?, Absolutely nothing! Options

[hermit]

I thought the whole point of the war was Atlzan spreading south and Amazonia spreading north. Amazonia dosen't have to be growing trees for that to happen.

Well, the point is that Amazonia is angry because Aztlan is planting carniverous [sic!!] rainforest trees around Bogota and that makes Amazonia explode in rage for an undiscernible reason and send a team to blow up a research station where Aztech researchs the cure for cancer and the benign relative of this tree, Aztlan catches the Amazonians red-handed (or rather, sap-handed) and declares war.

[Brazilian_Shinob...]

Well, the point is that Amazonia is angry because Aztlan is planting carniverous [sic!!] rainforest trees around Bogota and that makes Amazonia explode in rage for an undiscernible reason and send a team to blow up a research station where Aztech researchs the cure for cancer and the benign relative of this tree, Aztlan catches the Amazonians red-handed (or rather, sap-handed) and declares war.

Actually:

Utilizing its considerable intelligence assets, Aztechnology allowed whispers telling of a new weapons program that was allegedly being developed inside the Aztechnology Business Complex to reach the resistance groups.  ese rumors pointed to research being conducted at the Juan Atzcapotzalco Research Facility that would dramatically alter several native species of insects found in the area to give them a much more potent, genetically engineered venom, and would make them carriers of new strains of Aztlan-designed diseases. Without proper treatment for either the venom or the diseases, a bitten or stung victim would die quickly, in an extremely painful manner.  Thee only ones that would have the anti-venoms and the anti-virals to treat the genetically engineered venoms and diseases would be Aztlan. The rumors also suggested that the new venom in particular would be able to overcome most critters’ immunity to normal pathogens.  e dramatic changes to the ecosystem tied introducing these poisons, combined with the ongoing presence of the Sangre Del Diablo trees, would undoubtedly shift the balance of power in the region even further into Aztlan’s favor.

But in fact the facility was studying the healing properties of the Sangre del Drago trees. And Aztlan used this invasion as motive enough to declare war.
For me, it doesn't make sense because Bogotá was supposed to be already a city belonging to Aztlan, but during the Ghost Cartel crisis Aztlan used their bombing operations of Ghost Cartels farms to destroy the congress building with the congressmen inside and NO ONE cared about. I mean, unless the Ghost Cartels had plantations inside the city itself, there is no excuse for missing a farm for a building. Specially a building with your own citizens inside...

[Doc Chase]

Actually:

Part of the reason Amazonia decided to start doing serious work in Bogota is because of Operation Palo Verde, which involved the seeding of Sangre Del Diablo trees in wide swaths of Bogota proper; namely where Amazonia had interests or support.

The public flashpoint was the facility invasion, which was a screaming trap that could've been avoided had Amazonia not been holding the Idiot Ball.

But in fact the facility was studying the healing properties of the Sangre del Drago trees. And Aztlan used this invasion as motive enough to declare war.
For me, it doesn't make sense because Bogotá was supposed to be already a city belonging to Aztlan, but during the Ghost Cartel crisis Aztlan used their bombing operations of Ghost Cartels farms to destroy the congress building with the congressmen inside and NO ONE cared about. I mean, unless the Ghost Cartels had plantations inside the city itself, there is no excuse for missing a farm for a building. Specially a building with your own citizens inside...

That's what makes me wonder if the entirety of Ghost Cartels closure arc should've been directed on Caracas and not Bogota, since it's a free city, would've had a government building worth hitting (in theory) and then War! would've been in an area that made perfect sense. It's like someone got the two towns mixed up and everyone just sorta tried to roll with it.

[Adarael]

...

You totally just made me realize I had mentally edited everything in Ghost Cartels to take place in Caracas, and not Bogota. No, seriously. I didn't even realize I had done that until you said it, and I checked my PDF. I'd say oops, but ireally, yeah. Way more sense in Caracas.

[Doc Chase]

...

You totally just made me realize I had mentally edited everything in Ghost Cartels to take place in Caracas, and not Bogota. No, seriously. I didn't even realize I had done that until you said it, and I checked my PDF. I'd say oops, but ireally, yeah. Way more sense in Caracas.

Heh. Amazing what a word change can do. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Brazilian_Shinob...]

Yes, Caracas would have made much more sense for Ghost Cartel.

[hobgoblin]

Checking 6WA related to Bogota seems to indicate it being a free city of sorts, but with heavy Aztlan influence to keep Amazonia at bay.

[Brazilian_Shinob...]

Checking 6WA related to Bogota seems to indicate it being a free city of sorts, but with heavy Aztlan influence to keep Amazonia at bay.

And that's the problem, when the hell that happened? They were never a free city in the first place, they became the state of Colombia of the Aztlan nation, not a buffer nation between Aztlan and Amazon.

[Starglyte]

And that's the problem, when the hell that happened? They were never a free city in the first place, they became the state of Colombia of the Aztlan nation, not a buffer nation between Aztlan and Amazon.

I know in the Aztlan sourcebook, Bogata is mentioned as not being part of Aztlan. In that sourcebook, it says that Bogata is "officially" within Amazonia, but the shadowtalk suggests its more disputed territory.

[hobgoblin]

Probably what served as a basis for the red area on the map in 6WA.

[Brazilian_Shinob...]

I know in the Aztlan sourcebook, Bogata is mentioned as not being part of Aztlan. In that sourcebook, it says that Bogata is "officially" within Amazonia, but the shadowtalk suggests its more disputed territory.

Really? I just got the Aztlan book yesterday, I'm gonna take a look at this.
Because, in this case, if it was part of Amazonia, then Amazonia would have all the motives to declare war against Aztlan in the first place instead of waiting for a whole year.
And if Bogotá is a no-man's land, I guess they could always ask for CC and UN protection, and I'm pretty sure the CC would love to have another territory controled by them.

[Starglyte]

Really? I just got the Aztlan book yesterday, I'm gonna take a look at this.
Because, in this case, if it was part of Amazonia, then Amazonia would have all the motives to declare war against Aztlan in the first place instead of waiting for a whole year.
And if Bogotá is a no-man's land, I guess they could always ask for CC and UN protection, and I'm pretty sure the CC would love to have another territory controled by them.

You will find the info on page 106.

[Cain]

To get things back on topic, does anyone know of any more ways to get the word out that War! is a crappy product, not worth buying? You can't write a review on DriveThruRpg.com without first buying from them, so that avenue is out. I've never bought from Amazon, so I don't know if they have the same policy, or if it's even available there yet.

[Wesley Street]

War! isn't listed on Amazon yet but you can post reviews when it is without purchasing it. You do have to have an Amazon account to do so. But War! isn't worth a media blitz over. Word of mouth is going to kill this thing and further damage CGL's credibility. Energy is better spent campaigning Topps to pull the license.

[Draco18s]

Energy is better spent campaigning Topps to pull the license.

More accurately getting Topps to tell CGL to "shape up or ship out."

I'd rather we not migrate to a 5th edition and instead have good quality material for 4th.
But if we can't have the latter, the former is looking pretty nice.

[Cain]

More accurately getting Topps to tell CGL to "shape up or ship out."

I'd rather we not migrate to a 5th edition and instead have good quality material for 4th.
But if we can't have the latter, the former is looking pretty nice.

I feel obliged to point out that when the license migrated from FanPro to CGL, we didn't have a new edition. So, SR5 may or may not happen.

[Draco18s]

I feel obliged to point out that when the license migrated from FanPro to CGL, we didn't have a new edition. So, SR5 may or may not happen.

True. It's not impossible, it is just highly unlikely.

[Wesley Street]

So, SR5 may or may not happen.

I will bet dollars to donuts that SR5 will happen. I don't know when but given the history of this game and the time between editions, it's past due. Which means it will probably happen sooner than we think. And I'd rather that not be on CGL's watch.

[Nath]

I feel obliged to point out that when the license migrated from FanPro to CGL, we didn't have a new edition. So, SR5 may or may not happen.

Or from FASA to FanPro, for that matter.

[sabs]

Well FanPro did do SR4. But not right away.

[Medicineman]

I will bet dollars to donuts that SR5 will happen. I don't know when .....

2012

Hough!
Medicineman

[Warlordtheft]

Finally finnished reading my hard copy of WAR! this weekend. I did not want to comment on it till I read the whole thing.

My opinion is that it is a mediocre book (on a scale of 1 to 10 it would be a flat 5:

The bad stuff:

1. War! was too focused on Bogota. Almost 2/3rds of the book related to it. It should not have been marketed as a descriptor of war in the 6th world as it bare even touches other conflicts.
The expectation of this boook was that it would be an update to fields of fire. It was not. A small primer on unit tactics and militaries of the world is missing. You could have stopped at around page 50 on Bogota and I think most readers would have gotten enough flavor to run a game there. The rest of the pages could have easily been used up describing various military/merc outfits. We still don't a have a cannon OOB for UCAS army, not even at the platoon level nor did it go into any great detail on Desert Wars.

2. Typos: Also was spelled Laos. The copy editor should not rely on spell check. Other minor mistakes were also present. This made the book look sloppy.

3. The gear section:Thor shots?? Really?? If I nead a thor shot as a GM, then the players are dead. If the PC's ever gain access to one and use it....yeah...as a GM the players are going to be dead dead. The same for nukes too. The weave armor was also an unwelcome addition (there is already too much armor munchkinism in the game). High power chambering is also not needed.

4. The spell slow is too vague in how it works. The grenade spell is somewhat redundant.

5. As to the concept-- I think source/fluff and gear/crunch should be in seperate books. They do not compliment each other very well.


The good stuff:
1. Not withstanding the over emphasis (I got the picture at around page 50), Bogota gave a good feel for a low intensity conflict in the 6th world.

2. Battle rifles are a nice addition, as were the nanofax AK-147's. Battle rifles fill a niche between assault rifles and sporting ones. The additional gear-some vehicles and drones were also done pretty well. The addition of programs with ratings above 7 is much needed as well.

3. Some of the advice for non-wargamers running a military encounter could be useful to non-wargamers as were the morale rules, and rules for multiple grenades going off.


To summarize, the book didn't do what it set out to accomplish, however it does have enough interesting tidbits. Is it worth the money? IMHO-Only if you are interested in Bogota and want the stats for more guns, vehicles and other crunch for gear. I don't think the gear by itself is worth it.

[CanRay]

But I really like my gear... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif)

And I hate not being able to complain about it because I haven't bought/read it.

[otakusensei]

I will bet dollars to donuts that SR5 will happen. I don't know when but given the history of this game and the time between editions, it's past due. Which means it will probably happen sooner than we think. And I'd rather that not be on CGL's watch.

I agree completely. But I also don't think Hardy and crew have the chops to pull off what Rob and everyone did for SR 4. More likely we'll get an SR3 style "update", some clarifications that I hope are really clarifications, and a reason for them to print new source books.

[Wesley Street]

SR4 re-wrote the game's core engine. And, for the most part, it works very well. The engine begins to seize up a bit in the post-Boyle & Co. secondary rules sets but that's (mostly) due to bad technical writing rather than bad math. Applied common sense can overcome most RAW-scripted generalities that induce arguments.

However the glaring exception are the Matrix rules which were only exacerbated by Unwired. Given this game's rocky history with deckers/hackers that's not surprising.

A good development team would treat SR5 as an opportunity for a serious Matrix rules patch, tweak a few minor balance issues, and maybe combine some Firearms skills and break up Artisan into more specific skills. Leave everything else alone and let players port over their SR4 supplements. But if War! is any kind of example of what's to come... *sigh*