Using two pistols, and a smartlink 2... |
Using two pistols, and a smartlink 2... |
Mar 18 2004, 06:37 PM
Post
#1
|
|
Target Group: Members Posts: 25 Joined: 20-December 02 Member No.: 3,759 |
I have come up with an idea on how to use two pistols with a Smartlink 2 with an extra ballistics processor. I picked the Smartlink 2 because it is the more advanced version. Anyway, I simply use the shotgun spread chart and the character’s Intelligence subtracted from 10 as the choke. If you shoot at the same target you get the -2TN for each weapon (all over mods apply, two weapon, ambidextrous. etc.). If you shoot at two targets they must be with the spread and then you only get a -1TN for each target.
Example: A crazy ex-Lone Star medic is shooting at two victims...err... targets. Her INT is 5. The targets are 15 meters away and 7 meters apart. At 15 meters away she would only be able to aim at targets 5 meters apart. What do you guys think of that? And yes, go ahead and complain about how the rules say you can’t use two blah, blah, blah. If this has already been mentioned sorry I didn’t realize it. |
|
|
Mar 18 2004, 06:48 PM
Post
#2
|
|
Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
So the dumber you are the wider apart your targets can be? Or am i stupid? :dead:
|
|
|
Mar 18 2004, 06:59 PM
Post
#3
|
|
Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,006 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
I personally wouldn't even begin to allow it, but assuming it's allowed, I'd change that to be intelligence is maximum choke rather than choke at all.
~J |
|
|
Mar 18 2004, 08:19 PM
Post
#4
|
|
Ain Soph Aur Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,477 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Montreal, Canada Member No.: 600 |
Why would it be easier to shoot 2 weapons at 1 target that shooting a single weapon?
|
|
|
Mar 18 2004, 08:25 PM
Post
#5
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 376 Joined: 14-July 03 Member No.: 4,928 |
I'll only allow dual-targeting smartlinks provided they are hardwired into a cranial kink-bomb set to explode when both smartlinks are active at the same time. :eek:
|
|
|
Mar 18 2004, 09:19 PM
Post
#6
|
|||
Target Group: Members Posts: 25 Joined: 20-December 02 Member No.: 3,759 |
The way I understand it the rating of the choke the number of meters before the next spread? Therefore someone with an INT of 2 would have a "choke" of 8. Meaning that every 8 meters the spread opens up two meters |
||
|
|||
Mar 19 2004, 01:02 AM
Post
#7
|
|
Target Group: Members Posts: 41 Joined: 23-February 04 From: Michigan Member No.: 6,098 |
Searching these forums should reveal a number of threads that this has been hashed out in pretty well.
|
|
|
Mar 19 2004, 02:36 AM
Post
#8
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 596 Joined: 18-February 03 Member No.: 4,112 |
Would't it make sense for quickness to replace INT in this case?
|
|
|
Mar 19 2004, 04:57 AM
Post
#9
|
|||
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 216 Joined: 27-January 04 Member No.: 6,025 |
Would you like me to tell you how many Quickness 10/11 characters I've had? ;) I wouldn't like this for the simple reason that it requires the GM to either keep track of the exact position of all combatants and have more than a passing knowledge of triginomitry. Or, set up miniatures on a grid sheet that not everyone has, and have said Trig skills 8) |
||
|
|||
Mar 19 2004, 04:31 PM
Post
#10
|
|
Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,632 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Portland Oregon, USA Member No.: 1,304 |
Here's how I rule it:
If you've got two SGL2's implanted, and 2 pistols with SGL, and you shoot at one target, you get normal bonuses and penalties, including the -2 TN for the SGL. You also get the recoil penalties and stuff. I don't think firing multiple guns at the same target should be any harder than firing one, other than recoil and such. If you've got two SGL2's implanted and 2 pislots with SGL and you try to shoot at different targets, you not only lose the bonus, you get an additional +2 because of the crazy sight reticals dancing around your eye's confusing you. As well as the penalty on the second one for firing at a different target. If you only use one SGL, and have the other one off, then you get normal TN's (per the book) for both, including getting the SGL bonus for one. In other words, you're concentrating on the one you're shooting at with the SGL, so your base TN is 2, the other one you're just throwing a slug at, and your TN is 6. That works for me. |
|
|
Mar 19 2004, 08:14 PM
Post
#11
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 153 Joined: 16-February 04 From: Ohio, USA Member No.: 6,083 |
Wielding two handguns is such a Hollywood thing. If that is the feel your after in your game then go for it.
I would say though, get yourself two paintball guns, Nerf dart guns, Soft-air pellet guns or some similar safe toy handgun and have two of your buddies run around on either side of you and try to hit them with both guns simultaneously or even in very rapid succession. I think you will find duel-wielding pistols difficult at best. The off hand is going to really suck unless you have practiced with it a lot or are ambidextrous. In general it’s far easier to use one gun and engage both target one after the other. As far as duel wielding handguns go I cannot think of any group now or since the inception of firearms where it is taught even to the most elite soldiers or swat officers. It is always taught to use one weapon at a time. Even in the ‘old west’ carrying two or more handgun was not for duel wielding but because is took so darn long to load the old black powder revolvers and even with the invention of the cartridge based revolvers like the Colt peacemaker and other side gate loading single action pistols unloading and reloading was a chore done one chamber at a time. Even then it was rare that one could afford more than one side arm and not many that could afford it wanted the extra weight of the second gun on their belt. It looks good on the big screen but I feel reality has proven it less then effective. Maybe with smart gun links you can argue otherwise. It is an RPG so don’t let reality stop you if you want to. mcb |
|
|
Mar 19 2004, 08:54 PM
Post
#12
|
|
Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,512 Joined: 16-August 03 From: Northampton Member No.: 5,499 |
I'd have to agree that it's very hard. Seen a mate play a shooting game with the red gun in his left, blue in his right. if he need to shoot anything moving he rocked and his accuracy didn't suffer that much, but when it came to blue gun blue targets etc. both guns suffered majorly.
And that doesn't factor in recoil or the fact the targets may not be in a meter by meter square.. |
|
|
Mar 19 2004, 11:41 PM
Post
#13
|
|
Target Group: Members Posts: 23 Joined: 26-February 02 From: The Morgue Member No.: 676 |
Ok... instead of starting a whole new thread, I'll ask my question here (it's a related one). What kind of penalties would you give if a character wants to fire more than two firearms? Let's say the character has an articulated arm (or two) or maybe an eye-gun.
|
|
|
Mar 20 2004, 06:13 AM
Post
#14
|
|||
Street Doc Group: Admin Posts: 3,508 Joined: 2-March 04 From: Neverwhere Member No.: 6,114 |
mcb hit the nail on the head. Special Operators and CQB specialists don't even bother with two pistols because one is just more effective when you consider the loss of accuracy with two. IRL they spend a great deal of time practicing "transitions"- changing from one weapon to another as quickly and efficiently as possible while under fire. They practice these until it is damn near a reflex action. A well trained operator will count the number of rounds he runs thought his SMG and will begin transitioning to his pistol almost as soon as the last round leaves the barrel. |
||
|
|||
Mar 20 2004, 12:09 PM
Post
#15
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 665 Joined: 20-November 03 Member No.: 5,834 |
I suppose you could create the skill "Off-hand pistols" or "Off-hand SMGs" and make the player take lots of extra skill if they want to fire two guns at once. That would be consistent with the melee weapon skills.
I seem to recall that in one of the books Hatchetman had two Smartlinks and had two reticules with different colors in his vision to tell them apart. While obviously the books aren't canon that would suggest it's possible. |
|
|
Mar 20 2004, 02:24 PM
Post
#16
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 546 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Manchester, England Member No.: 1,062 |
The rules are in SR3, and are pretty clear - you can fire 2 guns if you want, but you'll be on +2s for both guns, and uncompensated recoil from one gun effects the other. Smartlinks and Laser sites are no help.
|
|
|
Mar 20 2004, 05:45 PM
Post
#17
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 376 Joined: 14-July 03 Member No.: 4,928 |
The only thing that will help with two guns is the enhance Aim Spell and Full Ambidexterity.
However, since Enhance Aim can be resisted by the target you're shooting at (all detection spells are resisted), it's ambiguous at best - it needs to be high force, sustained or in a sustaining focus, the TN is 6, with every two successes reducing your TN by for, up to 1/2 the force of the spell max. I've found enhance aim to work really well with elemental manipulation area-effect spells. Just target the ground in front of the guys you want to frag (ground doesn't get to resist). Two successes on a force 2 enhance aim in a Force 2 Sustaining focus, and you're TNs are 2s (-1 TN for stationary target [the ground]). This means a lot more dice to reserve for drain on Elemental Manips. |
|
|
Mar 20 2004, 06:12 PM
Post
#18
|
|
Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,006 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
Regarding Hatchetman, if someone had two smartlink processors I would most definitely allow two reticles to exist, one tracking one gun, one the other. The smartlink would work perfectly, it just wouldn't give a bonus.
~J |
|
|
Lo-Fi Version | Time is now: 25th April 2024 - 12:53 AM |
Topps, Inc has sole ownership of the names, logo, artwork, marks, photographs, sounds, audio, video and/or any proprietary material used in connection with the game Shadowrun. Topps, Inc has granted permission to the Dumpshock Forums to use such names, logos, artwork, marks and/or any proprietary materials for promotional and informational purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not affiliated with the Dumpshock Forums in any official capacity whatsoever.